• The new B5TV.COM is here. We've replaced our 16 year old software with flashy new XenForo install. Registration is open again. Password resets will work again. More info here.

so did sheridan actually die @ z`ha`dum ??

D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
crazy.gif
did sheridan actually die @ z`ha`dum ?? it gets a bit confusing

1.we know that sheridan was falling down that abyss and we presume that lorien captured him

2.lorien did state that he was "between moments" so was he dead or was he alive or was he just there
crazy.gif


3.we know that lorien gave him life energy to sustain him so i have to presume he was dead but if lorien captured him in mid air how could he die , unless the blast killed him ..


you`re thoughts on this please !!!!

smile.gif
smile.gif
smile.gif
smile.gif
smile.gif
smile.gif


sph

------------------
sheridan knows ... but what remains to be seen is wether he knows that he knows ......
lorien -- into the fire
 
Ahhh, THAT question!

The way I see it, is that the whole Lorien by the fire thing was actually in Sheridan's mind. I prefer to think that Lorien in his natural state, picked up and studied this dead or dying thing that fell into his living room. He probed the thoughts in it's brain, and all of the events seen occurred "in between moments".

After their mental communication, Lorien decided that he liked and was intrigued by this man, and decided to resurrect him and accompany him on his journey.

Whatcha think?



------------------
"Draal gave Zathras list of things not to say. This was one.
No. Not good.
Not supposed to mention one, or THE one.
Hmmmm.

You never heard that."
 
I think Sheridan's body was actually dead, but his spirit or soul were not. Lorien spoke to that spirit or whatever and convinced Sheridan that he needed to totally give into death and let go. I think his spirit needed to let go of his body before he could give in to death completely. That was probably the only way that Lorien could actually help him.

------------------
Lorien: Who are you?
RW: The salad man.
Lorien: Why are you here?
RW: To be the salad ambassador.
Lorien: What do you want?
RW: Everyone to know the joys of salad.
Lorien: Do you have anything worth living for?
RW: Yes, my salad bars.
Lorien: Where are you going?
RW: To spread the joys of salad throughout the galaxy.
 
To quote one of the ambassadors -

"Sheridan DIED trying to attack Z'ha'dum!"

He jumped into a more-than-two-mile abyss underneath a city that was being nuked. Yup, he died. Dead as roadkill.

Lorien, however, captured his "soul" as you might say. And the rest is television history.

The only thing keeping Sheridan "alive" after Z'ha'dum was Lorien's gift. The normal human power source, I suppose you can say, was spent.

------------------
The writer's life is not meant to be a happy one. We all accept that going in. -JMS
 
It is possible to die in freefall descent without hitting anything! I think it's got something to do with terminal velocity.

However, we do see an "external shot" when Lorien is probing Sheridan, where both are suspended in limbo, energy from Lorien holding Sheridan without letting him drop. Lorien is capable of flight, i mean he did develop a habit of flying in and out of Sheridan's ship's cockpit windows in the Coriana system!

------------------
Back when I was a kid in Sunday School, Father Minkowski once said: "Given the crucifixion was a terrible thing for anyone to endure, if you could go back in time 2200 years, would you prevent the crucifixion of Christ?" Well after a heated debate, we all agreed the answer was no. The crucifixion was necessary to redeem the world. - Lt. John Matheson "The Needs of Earth"

"We live for the One. We die for the One!"
 
I think he was dead as dead can be. He was supposed to be the Jesus of the story, Messianic and all of that, so he died and was "animated" by Lorien for 20 years.


------------------
 
Yes he did die on Z'Ha'Dum in the literal sense but also in the sense that the old sheriden died. When Lorien revived him Sheriden became more determined, perhaps more forward to his enemies than he would have done before...

------------------
"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here" -Walkers of Sigma957
 
my understanding which is rather limited is that sheridan was falling and lorien sorta talked to him mentally. I don't know why he did but he did and he had to get sheridan to let go and allow himself to die. He then breathed on the remaining embers and revived him. As he said it might or might not work. We then see sheridan right after he hit the bottom with lorien looking down on him. And the rest is history or is it the future? I'm confused

------------------
 
The big answer:

Well, it depends on how you define "dead"!

Basically that's it.
His body was certainly dead, at the very least for a few moments... but then, there are other people alive who had this experiance.
His brain... who knows. It usually does take a few minutes for the brain to die after the body does... but since he needed Lorien's gift to live afterwards, I'd say yes, he did sustanin more cell damage than we currently (and the humans in this fictional future) could repair.
His spirit - certainly not. Caught by Lorien before he could pass the "doorway", and leter restored to his body...

------------------
"ShadowScout"
Roman Alexander

"Go on, watch out for Shadows - we'll watch you right back!"

What do you want?
ShadowShips!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> "It's easy to find something worth dying for. Do you have anything worth living for?"
"I can't see you anymore."
"As it should be."
"What if I fall? How will I know you'll catch me?"
"I caught you before."
"What if I die?"
"I can not create life, but I can breathe on the remaining embers.. It may not work."
"But I can hope."
"Hope is all we have."

Lorien & Sheridan in Babylon 5:"Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sheridan DIDN'T Die. He just came Very Close.

In addition to falling down that shaft, Sheridan was also caught in the edges of a Thermonuclear Explosion.

Lorien caught him and healed him as much as he could.
After that, it was up to Sheridan.
He decided to Live for Delenn.



------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
 
As the only thing sustaining Sheridan for 20 years after these events was Lorien's "giving of himself to sustain him", I think we can be fairly sure that Sheridan was physically dead.

However, Lorien also said (in 'Falling towards apotheosis' I believe) that he could not "... create life, only breathe on the embers" or something.

So it is actually spelled out in the show that he was not completely dead !!

crazy.gif
laugh.gif
crazy.gif


------------------
DaveC
"The lunch has already started,
it is too late for the sandwiches to vote"
 
Hey look !!

Someone had already said that
laugh.gif


D'Oh !!!!

------------------
DaveC
"The lunch has already started,
it is too late for the sandwiches to vote"
 
About those 20 years...

Why Lorien gave only so much energy for Sheridan to sustain him only for 20 extra years? Perhaps only that much fitted inside Sheridan's body and he was already meant to die 2280 (or 2281) no matter what.

How much these events changed his amount of years:

1) Saving Garibaldi by using the Healing Machine.

2) Been beaten and kicked by Ulkesh. (Lorien seemed to save Sheridan again after the fight.)

Regards,
TheInfection

------------------
Things change... long time gone by.
 
This has always been a major question of mine too. I prefer to think he did not die "all the way" because I've never been comfortable with topics of non-Biblical resurrections.

I think I like Galahad's explanation the best.

I think Sheridan's body would have been pulp if he had actually hit bottom, so Lorien almost definitely caught him first. If Sheridan did die, then dying from terminal velocity or maybe radiation from the blast above makes the most sense. Therefore, his conversations with Lorien were the equivalent of a near-death experience, and Lorien restoring him would be similar to the way ER doctors can bring someone back by shocking the heart soon after it stops.

To be honest, I'm not sure there really is a correct answer to this question. I think JMS may have intentionally left it vague, so that we'd have to decide for ourselves and consider all the things we've considered here. He probably wanted the topic to get our brains pumping.

------------------
An Old Egyptian Blessing: May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places that you must walk.

Thoughts & prayers to citizens of NY, DC, and to us all.

[This message has been edited by Ninja_Squirrel (edited November 16, 2001).]
 
Aww thanx Ninja!

I shouldn't worry too much about the non-biblical resurrection thing. The difference is that if like me, you believe old JC was who he said he was, then his resurrection is unique because he himself (given the three in one nature of God in Christianity), performed the resurrection. It did not require an external force or entity, but his righteousness and unity with the Father. Jesus was definitely for me, all dead not mostly dead, so there were no embers to breathe on.

Anyway I'm clubbing you all to death with my Bible, so before you lose consciousness, I'll stop. Apologies if I appear to have overstepped the mark. Was not my intention.

------------------
Back when I was a kid in Sunday School, Father Minkowski once said: "Given the crucifixion was a terrible thing for anyone to endure, if you could go back in time 2200 years, would you prevent the crucifixion of Christ?" Well after a heated debate, we all agreed the answer was no. The crucifixion was necessary to redeem the world. - Lt. John Matheson "The Needs of Earth"

"We live for the One. We die for the One!"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B5_Obsessed:
Ahhh, THAT question!

The way I see it, is that the whole Lorien by the fire thing was actually in Sheridan's mind. I prefer to think that Lorien in his natural state, picked up and studied this dead or dying thing that fell into his living room. He probed the thoughts in it's brain, and all of the events seen occurred "in between moments".

After their mental communication, Lorien decided that he liked and was intrigued by this man, and decided to resurrect him and accompany him on his journey.

Whatcha think?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JMS has a small thing going with the whole death thing in B5, doesn't he? The Psi-thing where you can't get too close to someone dieing while you are in rapport with them, or you might just go over with them, or "lose your soul".

Since Lorien did state that he cannot create life, I think we are to assume he caught Sheridan just before Sheridan died. I also think he could not bring him back to functioning form without motivating him. I never saw Lorien’s questions as being “answer correctly and live; answer incorrectly and die”. I saw it more as: Lorien saw an opportunity to end the Shadow/Vorlon craziness. He saw the man who could do the job, with just a bit more guidance. He “prodded” Sheridan enough to get the old adrenalin going, and did what he could do to patch up Sheridan.


------------------
"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

"I think I speak for Mr. Bloom and myself when I say: you are the only director in the World who can do justice to 'Springtime For Hitler' " - Zero Mostel, The Producers
 
Well, if Sheridan died (depending on your definition...btw, I agree that he couldn't have died if all Lorien could do is breath on the embers...therefore there must have been embers), wouldn't what was left of Kosh in him died as well?
crazy.gif


------------------
Wipster

"Live Long in Prosser"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Members online

No members online now.
Total: 389 (members: 0, guests: 389)

Share this page

Back
Top