SPOILER thoughts on Matrix Reloaded

[SamGadsby]

I cannot believe I was able to read all of this post. Some of these are incredible long. phew. I took notes.

First, the dance scene. We're going to be attacked be sentinels so lets prove were not scared by dancing. WTF?

Now for some answers to questions above

Recoil - I don't remember exactly why 7 is the perfect number. It was calculated the same way 666 is the devil's number. Something with the letters corresponding with numbers and they add up a certain name. I'm guessing they used "Jesus" to calculate 7 but I probably remember that wrong. (hmm, I have to suggest to Antony he make these post boxes bigger.) And I think the Roman judge that condemned Jesus (why can't I remember his name?) was used to calculate 666.

About how Smith took possession of a human external from the Matrix. Something (Neo) changed Smith. I think he was able to copy his program into the brain of that guy, overwriting his personality (data).

Malakian82 - The door on the left was the one that led back to the matrix, the right led to the 'core.' He didn't choose the door that meant he chooses 30 people.

I think it was hard for Neo to ... well for everything involving the Matrix in order to get Zion to believe in him. (How many people have we seen suddenly say I'm a believer?)

Damn, my notes have failed me, someone thought Neo had been to the core 6 other times. Those were different 'The One's they could have had different names even, but their titles were still The One. (I'd make some comment about being [not] mutually exclusive but I'm too tired to remember which is which.

[hmm, .. how long was this post...]

Again, that dance scene was pointless, worst part of the movie IMHO.

 

[Recoil]

SEVERAL people here posted complaints about the "Dance/Rave" scene and disliked it in the movie. To be honest I had the same reaction, and thought it was rather pointless, and Hollywood adding "sex" to the movie because its almost expected these days. I didn't think too much of the scene that is...until after I read this post, then I looked at it a bit differently, and do think it did add something to the movie, and said a lot about Neo and Zion.

----------------

And what do we make of the already infamous “rave” scene? Well, for one thing, I think it’s asinine to call it a rave. Suggests to me that many critics have never been to a rave. Every single one I’ve ever been to has been empty bacchanal, desperate partying with little or no real joy. The celebration at Zion is something entirely different, and I’d even argue that it’s crucial, just like the love scene that unfolds at the same time. There is a war going on... man versus machine... and these people in Zion have things that they can share that the machines will never understand, no matter how long they study us. Things like simple physical pleasure, emotional release, and sexual chemistry. Neo and Trinity don’t just bond over shared danger or a common purpose. There’s genuine heat between them, and in the face of possible death, it makes sense to reaffirm the charge of life that comes from intimacy with someone else. That’s what those people are celebrating. That’s what makes them dance. No machine would ever think to dance as a way of expression. It’s not logical. It’s not reasonable. It’s pure visceral emotion, and even if the scene goes on too long for its own good, it manages to establish that there is joy in this world, something good worth fighting for.

 

[GKarsEye]

7 was important way before Jesus. As the number of days in a week, it is the number of Creation and the day God "rested." Students of Hebrew numerology find the number 7 is patterns all over the Hebrew text of the Torah (Old Testament), especially in Genesis.


I understand the point of the dance scene (and all the other scenes), they just weren't executed convincingly. Maybe it would've made sense if Morpheus' speech was inspiring and somewhat intelligable, sparking the celebration. But it was just so lame. I dunno, maybe they cranked th music up just to make sure he didn't talk anymore.

 

[admiraldave]

^ I agree and I understood what that scene meant after the first few seconds of it. But then ... it just kept going ... and going. Seriously, there was a point to that sequence, but the sequence was overlong and in serious need of an editor with a demented gleam in his eye.

 

[G Kar of the Kha Ri]

Whoops. I guess there was a point to the dancing after all. But like everyone else so far, I think that it DID go on for too long.

And why didn't I mention the ending? Pshaw. I disappoint myself. Sure, tacking a "To Be Concluded" on the end works for TV since most of the time you're gonna get the conclusion a week from then, but movies just don't work that way. Even if the third Matrix comes out this year (is it?), we still have to wait several months for any real closure. And really. It's like they filmed the last two all at once, then decided to chop it in half. Also, this ending should silence all those people that thought The Fellowship of the Ring's ending was too abrupt. But like I said in my last post, it didn't bother me ALL that much. I came, I saw, I enjoyed. That's all that really matters.

 

[TheInfection]

I wonder what happened to the music in this movie. In the Matrix, it seems most of the songs were hard-hitting metal/rock/electronica/whatever. This one was...orchestrated? wtf? Some scenes had electronic music, but man, I just distracted by the music most of the time, just was not what I expected.

Don Davis composed an orchestral score to the first movie also. I haven't seen Reloaded yet but I've heard that he's developed the themes and motifs from the first one quite a bit. I myself hate those pop/rock-albums and prefer the original score.

Regards,
Marko Marin

 

[Malakian82]

Perhaps this is a bit redundant, but I’d like to add my two cents about the rave scene. Of course it is instrumental to make a point about the difference between humans and machines, and to celebrate humanity. But I don’t think they just dance because the attack is imminent, such as some have suggested. Like Niobe says to Morpheous ‘I remember when you used to dance’. So besides making a cinematographical point, the dancing is a recurring ritual. My guess is, it’s Friday night and people want to party

Sure, tacking a "To Be Concluded" on the end works for TV since most of the time you're gonna get the conclusion a week from then, but movies just don't work that way. Even if the third Matrix comes out this year (is it?), we still have to wait several months for any real closure. And really. It's like they filmed the last two all at once, then decided to chop it in half.

The ending was a bit, abrupt yes. As you mentioned in your post, the Fellowship (and Two Towers) also ended with a cliffhanger, but in those movies a lot more was resolved. Here, we just get a lot of information dumped on us, namely: the prophecy is a hoax, a way to assert control - the defense of Zion has suffered a major blow – and Bane is the traitor (because of his infection by Smith). But a lot of this is talk, talk, talk, talk.

If the movie ended with a lot more doom and gloom it probably would have worked. If you would actually see the battle, and see Bane sabotage the defence, it would have been a lot more impressive. Then, the movie should have cut the Nebuchadnezzar being destroyed, Neo stopping the Sentinals, and them running away. This way, a lot is still not resolved, but it would have been more impressive than just talk, talk, talk, talk. Now you get the feeling you are watching a scene witch is suddenly broken off.

 

[A_Ranger]

The whole 7 being perfect number convo is rather pointless as Neo is not the 7th one, he's the 6th. He's only had 5 predecessors. And believe me, I saw the movie twice so I made sure to the second time around to listen closely to what's said. Neo is only the 6th

 

[AntonyF]

I haven't really read most of this thread... it's long.

And I can't be bothered to post a long message, the film doesn't deserve it.

But all in all, it sucked. I wasn't a big fan of the first one, but it's wayyyy better than this crap.

The biggest problem was Neo. What's the fun of seeing someone fight who's "invincible" and fights people off like he's doing the washing? To this end, when Morpheus and Trinity were being chased it was a bit more interest, the white guys were cool and the car chase scenes were acceptable.

Also it's just become a parody of its... Smith for example. I did laugh a few times in the movie, when I think I was meant to be concerned or some shit.

All in all crap, with a couple of diverting moments.

Go watch X-Men 2 for your sci-fi needs, and go watch Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon if you want to see proper, not stilted-actors-doing-martial-arts, action.

 

[Fas]

Watched the movie yesterday. I don´t think its worth a long post from me either, i will just say i thought it was quite cool- a very entertaining action movie, nothing more. So you are not the only one who wasn´t concerned at any moment or didn´t really give a shit about the characters.

And i have to agree with the people who say the architect scene was a little dissapointing, and the dance and sex scene a somewhat cheap.

Did i mention the Smiths-Neo fight was cool?

 

[Fas]

Watched the movie yesterday. I don´t think its worth a long post from me either, i will just say i thought it was quite cool- a very entertaining action movie, nothing more. So you are not the only one who wasn´t concerned at any moment or didn´t really give a shit about the characters.

And i have to agree with the people who say the architect scene was a little dissapointing, and the dance and sex scene a somewhat cheap.

Did i mention the Smiths-Neo fight was cool?

 

[TheInfection]

What's the fun of seeing someone fight who's "invincible" and fights people off like he's doing the washing?

As I recall, Superman was (is?) quite a popular hero. And he's invincible.

Hopefully I will see Reloaded soon and then I will make own my judgement. Is it crap? That remains to be seen.

Regards,
Marko Marin

 

[TheInfection]

What's the fun of seeing someone fight who's "invincible" and fights people off like he's doing the washing?

As I recall, Superman was (is?) quite a popular hero. And he's invincible.

Hopefully I will see Reloaded soon and then I will make own my judgement. Is it crap? That remains to be seen.

Regards,
Marko Marin

 

[Galahad]

Back to numbers again, and not only are 6 and 7 important but so is 8!!!!

From Christian viewpoint, each day that Jesus is recorded as appearing after his death, it is the 8th day, or 1st day of a new week. This includes Resurrection itself and Ascension. Even the first Pentecost matches this pattern.

I think the point was that it was not the day of rest anymore, but a time for action... a new beginning. So what did the organised church do in later generations? Turn it into an extra day off!!!!!!!!!

Haven't seen the film yet, but spoilers don't wreck things for me. Have to say from what you guys are saying about the dance scene... it sounds a lot like what was going on around the golden Calf in Exodus.

Did anyone know that the Nebuchadnezzar's serial number is a scripture reference. The plate says Mk 4 Number 11. Correspons to Mark 4:11 which refers to Jesus saying that to those who understand the truth is spoken plainly but for those who do not understand everything is told in parables... quite appropriate I thought!

I have heard there are a couple more in Reloaded but I have yet to check it out!

 

[GKarsEye]

From Christian viewpoint, each day that Jesus is recorded as appearing after his death, it is the 8th day, or 1st day of a new week. This includes Resurrection itself and Ascension. Even the first Pentecost matches this pattern.

Could you please explain this a bit more? I don't understand the concept of Jesus coming back once a week? Wasn't he only back for three days?

There are plenty of biblical references in the movie. While I was watching it, I knew there were more in there than I could possibly notice.

 

[Galahad]

Could you please explain this a bit more? I don't understand the concept of Jesus coming back once a week? Wasn't he only back for three days?

Jesus is described as being around for forty days I think (the Hebrew term for an unrecorded reasonable amount of time), all we know is that he definitely went home before the festival of firstfruits, as that is when Pentecost occurred (more syncronicity here than you can shake a l leg at!) The three days you are referring to I think is the time between Good Friday and Easter Sunday, which was the time he spent dead. the Bible doesn't say he only appeared on Sunday's, but i think I'm write in saying that each recorded appearance after the resurrection occurs on a Sunday.

 

[blibrandi]

I actually enjoyed the movie quite well. The freeway scene was absolutely the best scene in the movie. The dance scene as others have pointed out had a point, but took twice as long as it should have.

As for the ending, since I knew there was going to be a third I knew they would have it as a continuation. The only thing I don't understand is how people say its more abrupt than the ending for Fellowship. To me the way Fellowship just stopped like that was really annoying. The place that Reloaded stopped at was actually fitting, the only thing wrong that I saw was the To Be Continued message.

And the trailer at the end was not worth sitting through close to 10 minutes of credits.

 

[A_Ranger]

As for the ending, since I knew there was going to be a third I knew they would have it as a continuation. The only thing I don't understand is how people say its more abrupt than the ending for Fellowship. To me the way Fellowship just stopped like that was really annoying. The place that Reloaded stopped at was actually fitting, the only thing wrong that I saw was the To Be Continued message.

Except Fellowship DID end more cleanly. At the end of Fellowship, all the characters make decisions for the paths they arenow to follow along for the next movie. There is closure in that. There is no closure in Reloaded. We're simply left hanging halfway through a signle movie that is being broken up into 2 to make more money

 

[Elizar]

I Really enjoyed Reloaded when I saw it tonight! Yes, the dance scene was a little drawn out, but oh well.

I liked how ghosts and aliens were explained as programs not doing what they're supposed to. I also liked how many different programs there really are...not just the Agents.

Great movie!

 

[Strifeguard]

So, I've been having this debate with my friends for a while, and I'd like to get some fresh persepectives on it, if possible.

Here's the question: Is Persephone a program or a human?

Everything in the movie seems to suggest that she's a program, with the exception of her name. According to ancient Greek mythology, Persephone was a half-mortal that the god of the underword fell in love with. He then took her to the underworld and forced her to stay there until her mother (who was a minor god) was able to convince the other gods to set her free. (there's more to the story, but for those of you who are unfamiliar, that's really all you need to know)

Given her status in Reloaded (married to leader of the matrix's "program underworld") it would make sense if she was a human. Added to this the whole "I want you to kiss me like you kiss her" scene (none of the other programs care about human emotions) and the possibility of Persephone being a human seems more reasonable.

However, she also seems to know more about the inner workings of the Matrix than any other human (including the resistance), but that could simply come from being married to a program. Either way, I'd like to hear what others think about this.