KoshN
Super Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt. Neville:
All these things we keep saying, positive and negative, all seem to revolve around the idea of holding up LotR to the standards of B5.
IMHO, this is the wrong thing to do.
Despite the "Babylon 5" part of the title, LotR (both the movie and the eventual series) is an entirely new, stand-alone series. Yes, there will be ties to B5. Yes, there will be tidbits dropped in here and there for us. Yes, the universe itself is the same. But it's not the same story, not the same characters, and doubtless to be the same *style*. JMS has said repeatedly that he is done with B5 (barring any theatrical movie), that he didn't want to do another B5.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The way JMS described B5:LotR is strikingly similar to how he described Crusade before it came out. (I looked, but I can't find the specific quotes that I remember reading.)
JMS on Crusade:
---------------
12/29/1997 11:30 AM
What I want to do with Crusade is take the tools we learned to use in B5 and
apply them in a different (and in some ways, more ambitious) manner. It'll
have an arc, now that we've shown that it works, but not as rigorous an
arc...less overtly political but more thematic. Also, after 5 years of
angst-driven storytelling, I'd like to see if I can use the same tools to do
something a little more fun. I've lived in the dark side of the B5 universe
for a long time, and while there's plenty of darkness still out there, I kinda
want to go and do something a bit more adventurous...and which explores all the
places in the B5 universe that we've heard about, but never seen.
jms
From: (jmsatb5@aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at: http://www.thestation.com
*************************
As a B5 fan, seeing what he did, and was going to do in Crusade (e.g. the unfilmed scripts), if he does something like that in B5:LotR (i.e. less rigorous arcs and more of an action-adventure show), it'll be just fine. It won't be B5, but it'll be "B5-enough" for me. At least it won't be mindless episodic TV, where they forget everything that happened the week before.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Crusade, in a way, had the problem that it had too many ties to B5--not only did we see B5 several times in the meager 13 episodes produced, but Lochley was a recurring character. We were still in the B5 story more or less, just flashed forward a few years and moved the camera a bit to the left.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, Crusade didn't have enough ties to B5. There should have been no obligatory ties to B5, but there should have been ties to B5 as required by the Crusade story; i.e. whatever the story required, with no artificial enforcement or exclusion of ties.
I, for one, don't necessarily want more B5 involving the station itself. I want more B5 in the complexity of the threads, foreshadowing, detail, and seeing the occasional character now and then (not just Lochley and Zack), etc. Crusade should have freely moved through the B5 universe, and gone wherever it needed to go.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I believe that this, plus the intense desire for more B5, is coloring everyone's view of the new upcoming movie. Glen's recent post compared the movie at one point to the best episodes of B5, which I don't doubt we'll all have a tendency to do once we all see it in January.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Instead, compare it to the best episodes of Crusade. That would be more fair, since Crusade and B5:LotR would be more similar in style as well as vintage.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
In a way, though, they're apples and oranges. JMS has stated that he doesn't want to do another B5. From what we've seen and heard of LotR, it's definitely *not* going to be another B5. So why should we bother trying to compare the two?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Except for a few specific areas (music drowning out some character's lines, some lines that appeared to me as slams against TNT even though they could not have been, and the stuff done at TNT's behest), I like what JMS was doing with Crusade.
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 24, 2001).]
All these things we keep saying, positive and negative, all seem to revolve around the idea of holding up LotR to the standards of B5.
IMHO, this is the wrong thing to do.
Despite the "Babylon 5" part of the title, LotR (both the movie and the eventual series) is an entirely new, stand-alone series. Yes, there will be ties to B5. Yes, there will be tidbits dropped in here and there for us. Yes, the universe itself is the same. But it's not the same story, not the same characters, and doubtless to be the same *style*. JMS has said repeatedly that he is done with B5 (barring any theatrical movie), that he didn't want to do another B5.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The way JMS described B5:LotR is strikingly similar to how he described Crusade before it came out. (I looked, but I can't find the specific quotes that I remember reading.)
JMS on Crusade:
---------------
12/29/1997 11:30 AM
What I want to do with Crusade is take the tools we learned to use in B5 and
apply them in a different (and in some ways, more ambitious) manner. It'll
have an arc, now that we've shown that it works, but not as rigorous an
arc...less overtly political but more thematic. Also, after 5 years of
angst-driven storytelling, I'd like to see if I can use the same tools to do
something a little more fun. I've lived in the dark side of the B5 universe
for a long time, and while there's plenty of darkness still out there, I kinda
want to go and do something a bit more adventurous...and which explores all the
places in the B5 universe that we've heard about, but never seen.
jms
From: (jmsatb5@aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at: http://www.thestation.com
*************************
As a B5 fan, seeing what he did, and was going to do in Crusade (e.g. the unfilmed scripts), if he does something like that in B5:LotR (i.e. less rigorous arcs and more of an action-adventure show), it'll be just fine. It won't be B5, but it'll be "B5-enough" for me. At least it won't be mindless episodic TV, where they forget everything that happened the week before.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Crusade, in a way, had the problem that it had too many ties to B5--not only did we see B5 several times in the meager 13 episodes produced, but Lochley was a recurring character. We were still in the B5 story more or less, just flashed forward a few years and moved the camera a bit to the left.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, Crusade didn't have enough ties to B5. There should have been no obligatory ties to B5, but there should have been ties to B5 as required by the Crusade story; i.e. whatever the story required, with no artificial enforcement or exclusion of ties.
I, for one, don't necessarily want more B5 involving the station itself. I want more B5 in the complexity of the threads, foreshadowing, detail, and seeing the occasional character now and then (not just Lochley and Zack), etc. Crusade should have freely moved through the B5 universe, and gone wherever it needed to go.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I believe that this, plus the intense desire for more B5, is coloring everyone's view of the new upcoming movie. Glen's recent post compared the movie at one point to the best episodes of B5, which I don't doubt we'll all have a tendency to do once we all see it in January.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Instead, compare it to the best episodes of Crusade. That would be more fair, since Crusade and B5:LotR would be more similar in style as well as vintage.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
In a way, though, they're apples and oranges. JMS has stated that he doesn't want to do another B5. From what we've seen and heard of LotR, it's definitely *not* going to be another B5. So why should we bother trying to compare the two?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Except for a few specific areas (music drowning out some character's lines, some lines that appeared to me as slams against TNT even though they could not have been, and the stuff done at TNT's behest), I like what JMS was doing with Crusade.
------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 24, 2001).]
