Suggestion: Change our expectations

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tobias Clutch:
If you opened your eyes you might see things a little clearer.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow. How substantive and specific.

As I asked further up in this thread, so I ask now, for the third time:

What's the point of your post? What are you trying to accomplish?

In fourteen separate posts you've told us how bad TLaDiS is, or how disappointed and disallusioned you are in JMS.

We get it! YOU don't like the movie, and you want to say that as often as possible, to as many people as who will listen. By doing this, what are you trying to accomplish?

There has to be some goal. What is it?


Instead of of stating nothing but derogatory things about the movie (Evidently you liked absolutely nothing about it, except maybe for what Dylan was able to do with "what he was given."), what is your constructive idea for a solution to the problem?

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/


[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 25, 2001).]

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlackStar:
Can we like...come together and sing Byron's song now? Maybe?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you have to bring that up? Bleh! >urge to toss cookies<

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 25, 2001).]

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bab5nutz:
I don't think that the B5 universe is ncesarily dead in the water if the Rangers movie doesn't fly.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, I do. It'll be the final nail in the coffin. Think about it:

* JMS has lots of other things to do.

* The last of the novels is almost here. After Technomage Book #3, that's it.

* The last of the magazines is long gone (B5/Crusade Mag.).

* There is no venue for JMS or anybody else to publish the new short stories (Amazing Stories is gone. Seems like B5 has had the reverse-Midas touch.

)

* DelRey is dragging it's feet as usual (still no short story anthology).

Now, granted some things like Battlestar Galictica have tried to push the nails back out from the inside of the coffin, and rise from the dead, but so far at least that has not been successful.

>whew!<

UNFORTUNATELY, the nails are being really stubborn in Crusade's coffin.

(Sorry about all this coffin-talk, but it is getting near Halloween, you know.

)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Please excuse the comparison, but Star Trek managed to retain a loyal following for almost 20 years with no new series being made, and only the occasional movie of variable quality.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Times were different then. TOS ran from Sept. 1966 to June 1969. The first movie came along in 1979. That's 10 years. How much real Sci-Fi competition did Trek have between 1969 and 1979? TNG came along in 1987, after 1986's popular fourth Trek movie, and before the 1989 BOMB ST5.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> And there was no Internet back then! B5 has five seasons, and four movies - of variable quality - and a spin-off [albeit a short-lived one] to go on with.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...and a disturbing trend after the success of the five seasons on B5. Most people see the pinnacle of B5 as Seasons 3 & 4, and after that, there has been a general decline, one good movie (ACtA), and a couple of spikes of brilliance (e.g. a couple of Crusade episodes, and JMS's two unfilmed Crusade scripts). We expect all his stuff to get continually better, and to surpass even B5's best episodes. To hold these expectations, and then slam whatever JMS does that does not surpass say "Severed Dreams", is ridiculous. "Severed Dreams" did not stand on it's own. It was built upon everything that was in it's past. The TLaDiS movie can't really do this, if it's not going to be confusing to new people.

The new movie is intended for new people, and as such, it can't really give us hardcore fans everything we want. That would leave newbies confused. I want newbies to see it, like it, and want more.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
And the original pilot for B5 wasn't so great - I almost didn't go on to watch the series. And it took me almost a full season to really figure out what was going on.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. I want the new movie to be entertaining for newbies. In the new movie, I'd expect some quick brush strokes to give them a cursory understanding of the Rangers as an organization, but more links at the end of the movie pointing toward the future (e.g. open-ended, like ACtA).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Yes, I would like to see a new B5-related series as much as anyone else - but I'm probably gonna have to wait three years to even see the Rangersmovie! B5 isn't exactly high profile here!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

B5 isn't exactly high profile anywhere, especially here in the USA, the land of cop shows, hospital shows and lawyer shows.

Generally, if it's sci-fi, it isn't taken seriously by the mainstream

(e.g. the Emmys for a major award, e.g. Best Drama. X-Files is a breakout exception.).

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
KoshN, try curbing your paranoia. A negative doesn't mean they're "spitting on the embers" or whatever. It just means the reviewer didn't like it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does when they say it over and over and over again, fourteen times.



------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
This is the skill of recognizing that a particular reviewer is "wrong" so often that, when he/she says something is "Bad", you know immediately that YOU will love it.

It does require that you actually Read that reviewer often enough to notice the trend.

A witty, well written review is often fun to read, even when you totally disagree.
Badly written reviews, even those you agree with, are unlikely to make you want to read More by the same person.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thinking of Bester's reviews in Psi Corps Book #3?

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
And yet, JMS has said that's Not how they mixed it. Something messed up the mix on several episodes when they were first aired.

I didn't notice the problem during the Crusade Marathon a couple weeks ago.
Either they've gotten it back correctly, or I've gotten used to it.
I know it was Very annoying the first time around.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Strictly as an example from memory, listen to:
http://b5.sdvc.uwyo.edu/crusade/snds/mycat.wav


More examples (all at same site):
---------------------------------
The end of dremdark.wav from ACtA
The end of dsrv2die.wav
The end of slpythef.wav
Heardbit.wav could use the music turned down a bit.
The start of imykiltm.wav could use the music turned down a bit.


------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 25, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 25, 2001).]

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kin_of_zathras:
OK , what u all need is a bit of wisdom from zathras.

We need a decent frame of reference to compare Rangers pilot.

I think it should be A call to arms.
now this was a kick ass movie.
sure, it didn't have the punch and emotion of the best of B5 , but it was easy to enjoy from a newbie point of view.

on the other hand Itb which i loved , wasnt really a good movie to bring in new viewers.
i speak from experience here.

one longtime trekkie friend of mine agreed to watch ITb when i arranged a private scrrening on campus.

he absolutely hated it

then ACTA Awas broadcast a few months later on satellite and that convinced the guy to give the show a chance.
he's now enjoying the 4th season of the show and is a big fan of B5
and on second viewing , he thinkks ITB is in his top 3 scifi movies of alltime.

so the question is , do we want the movie to satisfy us die hards or
do we want a movie that newbies will enjoy?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I completely agree. This is a lot of what I've been saying.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by solaris5:
And I absolutely love it too! I was so happy when Antony made me a moderator, I love my avatar so much!

@Sta
Get your own custom avatar

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know what the expression on Neroon looks like to me?

... like Delenn's just ordered Neroon to eat a bug.

..and he's thinking, "Boy if you weren't Satai, I'd kick your a**."

[/B][/QUOTE]


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
KoshN- As I said before, there is no need to send these people to burn in the fiery pits of hell just because you don't like their reviews.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, how about the uncomfortably warm pits of Heck, with Phil, Prince of Insufficient Light?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I read the reviews and it didn't change anything. I'm still gonna watch B5LR, and I'll decide by myself. You people bitch about Enterprise 24/7 and that's never stopped me from watching it. If I wanna watch something, no reviewer is gonna stop me, okay? You should do the same, if you don't like the reviews, then don't, no one is making you like them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only replying because my name was mentioned in the paragraph.

I don't bitch much about Enterprise, and I've actually watched all the eps.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 25, 2001).]

 

[Shaal Mayan]

well I'm not expecting a masterpiece either and both my feet are planted on earth sure I would love to see a new series but my world won't end if that doesn't happen I'll be happy with the old one .

------------------


[This message has been edited by Shaal Mayan (edited October 25, 2001).]

 

[BlackStar]

I just want revenge. Revenge for Crusade.

I've been thinking about contacting MISter Morden.



------------------
"There's Snow White and the Seven Narns, Who's Your Little Pak'ma'ra, others..."
- Captain Matthew Gideon, The Needs of Earth
Rising Star

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlackStar:
I just want revenge. Revenge for Crusade.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here, but the best revenge would be a resurrection of Crusade followed by it's MASSIVE SUCCESS in the ratings. That would be delicious. Then, we could all send TNT copies of the ratings in the form of snail mail, and bury 'em in letters.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I've been thinking about contacting MISter Morden.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He's with Mr. Pike.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[hypatia]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karanthas:
Never speek with your mouth full,
Never speek with your Brain empty.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!

The world would be a much quieter place if we all followed that advice!

------------------
"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

"I think I speak for Mr. Bloom and myself when I say: you are the only director in the World who can do justice to 'Springtime For Hitler' " - Zero Mostel, The Producers

 

[solaris5]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
lol @ solaris. You silly Minbari.
Your avatar looks kick-ass. I think it's the best one here. I was gonna change to that one, but it would be confusing to have a picture of a Minbari under the handle GKarsEye, no?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True it would

And I absolutely love it too! I was so happy when Antony made me a moderator, I love my avatar so much!

@Sta
Get your own custom avatar

KoshN- As I said before, there is no need to send these people to burn in the fiery pits of hell just because you don't like their reviews.
I read the reviews and it didn't change anything. I'm still gonna watch B5LR, and I'll decide by myself. You people bitch about Enterprise 24/7 and that's never stopped me from watching it. If I wanna watch something, no reviewer is gonna stop me, okay? You should do the same, if you don't like the reviews, then don't, no one is making you like them.


May Valen be with you.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks hypatia I think someone should make it into a law!!

Next time I will try to spell it correctly,oh well nobodys perfect.

Never speak with your mouth full
Never speak with your brain empty

------------------

 

[RW7427]

Hypatia isn't one to point out spelling errors. You should see her in the chatroom when she's tipsy from having a few drinks!

Just teasin ya hypatia!

Oops, I made a spelling error when I first posted this and had to go back and edit it! My bad!


------------------
The Whitestar Salad Bar, our last best hope for peace, and a good meal too!

[This message has been edited by RW7427 (edited October 28, 2001).]

 

[Modane]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
Hey all, the wise and mighty GKarsEye checking in to offer a friendly suggestion to us crazy fans.

With all the hubbub around the upcoming Rangers movie, the reviews, the criticisms, etc going on, I think we need to step back and evaluate our expectations for what this thing will be.

I contend that it's OK if this movie isn't good. As much as we're looking forward to it, I think there's really something else we want: a series.

As far as I'm concerned, the point of this movie is to act as a stepping stone to a series. I really don't expect it to floor me, and I don't even care that much.

Yes, I know the success of the movie has something to do with whether or not it goes to series. So, our hope should be not that the Rangers movie is great, but that it gets us a series, whatever that means. Whatever this movie is, I'm sure worse has been thrown onto TV and been turned into a series.

JMS and the Babylon franchise isn't about TV movies. It's about engaging, quality serial television. Even if, hypothetically, the Rangers movie sucks ass, I'm confident that the series would be great, because that's their forte, what they know how to do.

It just seems to me that people are expecting this thing to be something amazing, or save their souls or some such. Chill out, folks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree 100%.

------------------
No one here is exactly what he appears.
G'Kar - Andreas Katsulas

Nothing's the same anymore.
Commander Sinclair - Michael O'Hare

Babylon 5