• The new B5TV.COM is here. We've replaced our 16 year old software with flashy new XenForo install. Registration is open again. Password resets will work again. More info here.

The Gunnery sequence - Zero G?

Zoriah

Beyond the rim
Thought I'd restart the discussion on the part shown in the trailer where Sarah Cantrell fights the enemy ships in what looks to be a zero g chamber or virtual environment.

I have no clue as to any of the scientific stuff. Someone pointed out that gestures in Zero G need to be more controlled and not as quick as portrayed by the character. Has anyone got any conrete ideas on what type of environment she was in?

Also I'd like to know more about the theory that in a vacuum there is no temperature. What happens when someone is subjected to the vacuum of space? I heard tell of eyeballs freezing etc. Is this because space while mostly vacuum, does have atoms and particles floating about but much more spread out etc? Not a science whiz as you can tell, just very curious, if someone in the know could elaborate.

------------------
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zoriah:
I have no clue as to any of the scientific stuff. Someone pointed out that gestures in Zero G need to be more controlled and not as quick as portrayed by the character. Has anyone got any conrete ideas on what type of environment she was in?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It's definitely not plain zero-G, since she's shown to stand on a surface. More likely, the computer regulates the gravity based on what she's doing (which would fit with how wire work looks). <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Also I'd like to know more about the theory that in a vacuum there is no temperature.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It ain't no theory - it's a fact
smile.gif
. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>What happens when someone is subjected to the vacuum of space?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I posted a summary and a link to more info in the previous thread. Shouldn't be hard to find. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I heard tell of eyeballs freezing etc. Is this because space while mostly vacuum, does have atoms and particles floating about but much more spread out etc?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You loose heat as it's sent out as radiation (infra red IIRC), though this is a slow process.


------------------
You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert

drakh@spamcop.net

[This message has been edited by drakh (edited October 27, 2001).]
 
I was thinking that maybe the gunner could be anchored somehow at his or her center of balance. That way, no matter which way the gunner turned, it would be cool.

This would also be consistent with the way the ship would operate from its center of balance, if the gunner truly "becomes" the ship during battle as it was implied.

I know little about physics, though, so feel free to poke holes in this particular theory.

------------------
Channe, who lives for the One and dies for the peanut-butter pie
--
"The secret of writing: get your character up a tree, and throw rocks at him." -JMS
 
Im pretty sure its a VR control system well so I read in a review that wont be named
laugh.gif

My semi educated opinion the gunners center of balance would have to be the same as the ships plus they whould need a way to sense direction eg gravity or a referece point to determine up,down etc Id imagine you would loose your bearings real fast without it.

As for becoming the "ship" I dont think in the setup described she could navagate and target the enemy at the same time,The ship would be heading in one direction while targets would lay in different ones,more likely she would just be controling the weapons.

Well thats my take feel free to jump in a VR suit and throw fireballs at me if Im wrong
laugh.gif


------------------
 
As far as the body's reaction to a vaccuum, I've seen and heard different "theories" as to how it goes, and I'm not sure which one is true.

A monumentally horrendous movie, Event Horizon, had someone subjected to a vaccuum and blood started coming out of their eyes, I guess because the eyes are a soft spot.

An old TV movie, I think one that came on Sci-Fi Channel, had the blood vessels swell and blow up because hollow things expand in a vaccuum.

A guy at work, who has allegedly studied physics, claims that a vaccuum would cause every cell to expand and blow up such that a human body would basically "vaporize" in a vaccuum.

So which is true? Or is it something totally different? Can someone educate us on what really happens?

------------------
An Old Egyptian Blessing: May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places that you must walk.

Thoughts & prayers to citizens of NY, DC, and to us all.
 
Since it's a VR system then she doesn't actually have to jump around the place, by that time I imagine we'll have devices that can read brain patterns and determine thought to an extent. I remember hearing about this stuff all ready happening. So she could just be hooked up in something like the great machine but a few magnitudes less sophisticated, and she merely 'thinks' she is moving just like Ivanova did.

Although I don't exactly like the idea, since humans are much prone to error unlike some computers today... computers in a thousand years will be so beyond humans we'll have thoughts equivalent of ants. Quantum computers should see to that. Humans are limited to what they can see for example, so she wouldn't be able to fight at any decent ranges. But I guess this can be fixed by having Sarah have mere control of firing and BASIC targeting but the computer adjusts any off target shots before firing. That could be done easily enough, but I'd like that stated if there is a series so the audience realises how she is making what should be impossible shots (such as kicking a plasma ball back where you're not watching).

------------------
Marc Cosgrove

"From chaos, order came. As was inevitable." -Summoning light
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Lord:
Since it's a VR system then she doesn't actually have to jump around the place, by that time I imagine we'll have devices that can read brain patterns and determine thought to an extent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This type of tech has generally been avoided in B5, so I wouldn't count on seeing it on Rangers. Besides, we know from information revealed so far that it's controlled by body movements. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>But I guess this can be fixed by having Sarah have mere control of firing and BASIC targeting but the computer adjusts any off target shots before firing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's how the Earth ships do it, and there's no reason to think the Minbari are any different.


------------------
You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert

drakh@spamcop.net
 
Here's a repost of the short summary of vacuum exposure effects, stolen from someone who Knows These Things:

In short, if you hold your breath, your lungs explode, if you don't, then the oxygen in your blood boils out of your lungs, leaving you unconsious in around 10 seconds (the oxygen leaves, unused, rather than being converted to CO2, as when you hold your breath.). After around 60s, brain damage probably starts to set in, and after 5 mins, you are likely dead. (due to there hardly being any oxygen in the body, far less for example than someone drowning)

After that, you probably end up cooling/bloating, and eventually end up a freeze-dried corpse.



------------------
You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert

drakh@spamcop.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drakh:
This type of tech has generally been avoided in B5, so I wouldn't count on seeing it on Rangers. Besides, we know from information revealed so far that it's controlled by body movements.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The great machine had it, so the Minbari having it when they're seemingly experts in this field isn't that much of a leap.

But with this system you'd be thinking that you're moving your body, so a statement of 'she moves her body to fire' would be in context with this technology.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>That's how the Earth ships do it, and there's no reason to think the Minbari are any different.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where is this stated? I know they can fire off axis if that's what you mean but as seen with the Excalibur, they still have to enter precise co-ordinates. Excalibur being more advanced than any other Earth vessel (except of course it's better half).



------------------
Marc Cosgrove

"From chaos, order came. As was inevitable." -Summoning light
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Vacuum has no temperature.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, yes and no.

All definitions of temperature have something to do with the movement of particles. But there is no absolute vacuum in space - so there will always be a few stray atoms bumping into you.

In addition to that, there are waves of radiation from stars, and the cosmic background radiation. Waves, as we know, can also be treated as particles. Therefore, by flexing the definitions a bit, one could say that space has a temperature.

An object placed into completely empty intergalactic space would soon reach the temperature of the cosmic background radiation which, unless I'm mistaken, is around 3 kelvins.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Eyeballs freezing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because of water evaporating from the eyes into vacuum. This should happen quite fast, but I hope nobody has ever tried it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>What type of environment she was in?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we might best understand Liandra's targeting system if we'd compare it to other ship control systems.

---------
WARNING! SHADOW NITPICKING FOLLOWS!
---------

1. Sharlin warcruisers.

The tactical centres of Minbari cruisers have neat holographic capabilities, supported by a healthy level of artificial intellect. They are ideal platforms for a commander to designate which manouvers to conduct, which targets to engage.

The difference is that warcruisers have a crew and fighters. An alyt only examins the "big picture", considers strategy/tactics and issues commands. For commanding large ships and whole fleets, this is doubtlessly the best division of tasks.

2. Nial fighters.

Nial fighters react to voice commands, hand gestures and may also read eye movements. To follow a target, a pilot would have to look at the target and give the command "ship, follow".

Due to limited space, power and other possibilities, fighters have no complicated virtual reality or holographic systems. Non-critical features can be controlled with hand gestures, buttons and other slower means.

3. White Stars.

Navigation and gunnery tasks on a White Star are flexibly distributed. It can be flown by a single person, but in combat a crew is highly recommended.

From observing a typical situation on a White Star I can conclude that there are at least two gunners (at the front of the command deck) whose seats are firmly fixed and who seem to control the ship/weapons with their eye/finger movements. They control the ship in the most demanding manouvers.

The same tasks can be carried out from the positions beside/behind the captain's seat. In case of the fleet's leading White Star, this seems to mean practically anyone familiar with the ship, including but not limited to Susan, Lennier, Marcus, John or Delenn.

As the persons at those positions are not firmly seated, we may conclude that they are not very critical a White Star's functioning in battle. Besides, with a ship using gravity engines, the event of a captain/navigator flying headfirst into a wall should be very rare. I guess this is the Minbari version of the "bonehead manouver".
laugh.gif


If the ship can no longer maintain safe accelerations, it means that the engines are severely damaged and command decisions no loger of much value -- as they can't be carried out.

4. The Liandra

Smaller and older than a White Star. This means that all tasks can't be distributed. It has to be handled by a single person.

Large enough to have holographic technology. Presumably large enough to locally manipulate gravity (as opposed to the fighters which simply maintain neutral gravity and propel themselves with gravity engines).

Thus I would suspect that the gunner is using a smaller version of a warcruiser's command centre, which has instead of communications systems been fitted with weapons control programs. Fine-tuning shots, electronic countermeasures, distance calculations and zooming are probably automatic. Target info appears next to the target. The gunner only does what a sentient mind is good at -- formulates tactics and selects targets. The rest is computerized.

5. Comparison with ships controlled more directly.

A Vorlon personal transport is telepathically linked to its master. A Vorlon can see with its sensors, feel its condition and control every aspect of its functioning with thought. Vorlon cruisers and planet-killers are probably controlled by many Vorlons, but with similar means. Vorlon fighters are probably remote-controlled.

Shadow vessels use a living being as their control system. The personality of that being has been destroyed, its body integrated into the ship. The core of a Shadow vessel has no free will, and has been re-programmed to destroy (unless told otherwise). A ship's core makes no distinction between his or her person and "the machine". The ships are controlled telepathically by "the eye".

While not organic, technomage ships are also closely linked to their owner. A piece of the mage's chrysalis is installed in the ship, allowing access to its functions with no more than a thought.

6. Comparison with ships controlled less directly.

Well, most of Earth Force still uses buttons, joysticks, touch-screens and simpler forms of voice control.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited October 28, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Lord:
The great machine had it, so the Minbari having it when they're seemingly experts in this field isn't that much of a leap.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Experts? Where'd you get that? In any case, the Great Machine is a wee bit more advanced than any of the younger races. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>But with this system you'd be thinking that you're moving your body, so a statement of 'she moves her body to fire' would be in context with this technology.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>From an interview with jms in Cinescape:

"weapons systems - 'When the ship is under attack, [Sirois] drops into a gunnery pod, which is a three-dimensional holographic representation of space, and actually becomes the ship,' says Straczynski. 'Instead of the
usual, 'There's a ship, fire!' and pushing a button, where she points, the ship fires.'"
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Where is this stated?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Various jms posts:

Actually, all sides in battle use ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) to throw off the targeting systems on the "enemy" vessels. But usually it only takes a couple of quick firings to compensate (which is what we've
done).


****

What the fighters tend to remain engaged with are the Minbari fighters, which are *incredibly* fast...much too fast to target visually.

Space battle's are way to big and fast for a human to be able to hit anything with direct control over the weapons. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I know they can fire off axis if that's what you mean but as seen with the Excalibur, they still have to enter precise co-ordinates. Excalibur being more advanced than any other Earth vessel (except of course it's better half).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Could you give me a scene refrence for this?


------------------
You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert

drakh@spamcop.net
 
*jaw drops*

I didn't even know the fighters had names.

------------------
Channe, who lives for the One and dies for the peanut-butter pie
--
"The secret of writing: get your character up a tree, and throw rocks at him." -JMS
 
Can someone who has actually Worked on REAL weapons systems put in Two Cents??

The reason you have a Person controlling a weapon system is simple:

The computer is very good at tracking and destroying things using the ship's weapons.

What it is NOT good at is deciding What is an "Enemy" and should, therefor, BE Destroyed.
Or out of Several Enemies, which is the most Dangerous and should be destroyed First.
This is particularly important when there are more targets than you have guns to shoot with.

That's the job of the Weapons Officer.
Decisions. Priorities.
Hopefully, good ones.
cool.gif
laugh.gif

Otherwise, your ship ends up full of bullet holes.
tongue.gif
wink.gif
shocked.gif


So, the weapons officer looks around, decides what or who are enemies, tells the computer to keep track of them and assigns priorities for Shooting at them.

Or not.
Sometimes, you don't Want to shoot.
Yet.



------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
The computer is very good at tracking and destroying things using the ship's weapons.

What it is NOT good at is deciding What is an "Enemy" and should, therefor, BE Destroyed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, computerised Friend or Foe systems would be needed for the high-speed, long-range action of space battle shown in B5. They are systems which identify vessels (presumably based on silhouette, electronic signature and some sort of identity beacon) and label them on the targetting systems to show which faction they belong to. They can also be used to lock out weapons from firing on ships identified as friendly. I believe that Sheridan mentions changing Friend or Foe systems to identify EarthForce cruisers which have defected in one episode.

------------------
 
Glad to see we're keeping up the discussion.

And yes, Lennier is definitely the Jane's Manual of 23rd Century warfare.

Putting in my two cents on selection of targets by computers: I would think that in future space battles of that type, the computers should be able to handle the job of selecting targets easily enough.

1. Friend of Foe systems. This was a biggie in the case of the Earth Civil War, when the sky was filled with dueling Starfuries and Omega Destroyers. When engaging a target, the computer would not allow a Starfury pilot to shoot a "friendly". Of course, with all the stray particle fire flying around, I'd bet a lot pilot flew right into friendly fire by accident. Any automatic weapons control system would have to have a friend of foe recognition system.

2. Known ship profiles. A database of known hostiles could be stored into the systems database so th computer reacts accordingly. In the case of a first contact conflict, the system would have to be able to update the database immediately if fired upon, with any ships that target and/or lock on the ship being confirmed as a potential target.

As for selecting WHICH targets, to shoot at, I would think it would be possible to program in parameters such as speed of target, destructive capacity, relative to position and speed to "friendly" ships or bases, outposts, colonies, etc., and analysis of enemy damage. These are the things a human would factor automatically and could probably be replicated with success by the 2250's, if not WAAAAAY before.

Even now, if I'm not mistaken, some of our smart missiles and drones have the capacity to select secondary targets at will. In other words, as a Tomahawk missile is flying toward its destination it detects an enemy tank on the horizon, it flies in low and carpets the tank with cluster-bombs, and then proceeds on to its primary target. Call it a bonus mission.

Great input!






------------------
"When something we value is destroyed, we rebuild it. If it's destroyed again we rebuild it again. And again, and again, and again. Until it stays. "
~Jeffrey Sinclair
 
IFF (Identification: Friend or Foe) is fine at identifying verified Friends.

It's not so good at identifying Friends who have not been given the correct signals for various reasons. Like Politics, change of circumstances, the friend's lack of security, etc.

You also need to have Human monitoring such variables as "Whoops, I Surrender!" and "He's not shooting at us, so let's ignore him."

You certainly aren't going to program any weapons system to "accept" a surrender broadcast.
As soon as you did, your enemies would start broadcasting "I surrender. OOPs, April Fool!" messages.
shocked.gif
shocked.gif
shocked.gif



No matter How advanced the computers get, they will NOT replace Human Judgement.

As far as AI systems go, for all the bullshit put out on the subject, it remains a fact: no one can program a computer to do Anything the Programmer doesn't know how to do him/herself.

AI is 99% con job.

The current BEST state of the art: A computer program/system that has taken over 15 years to develop and has less "intelligence" than a cockroach.
It has a database of close to a Billion "facts" stored and can access them all in seconds.
It still can't Think.

Because no one Knows how we DO that.
tongue.gif
tongue.gif
tongue.gif
cool.gif
cool.gif
cool.gif
crazy.gif
crazy.gif
crazy.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif


------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
 
It's my impression that generally people like to have the human factor in there for accountability if nothing else.

------------------
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Experts? Where'd you get that? In any case, the Great Machine is a wee bit more advanced than any of the younger races.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because they can simulate reality, remember the chamber where Delenn thinks she goes back in time, the computer takes from her thoughts and simulates the memory. I imagine the thing they drank in order to do this was some kinda of thought enhancer, making the brain patterns clearer and easier to interpret. Which they may have overcome in that time.

Great machine is advanced in that it has far more data, power and ability but the simulation process is hardly anything beyond the younger race. Since the Minbari can do it, although not as well as the great machine.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>From an interview with jms in Cinescape:

"weapons systems - 'When the ship is under attack, [Sirois] drops into a gunnery pod, which is a three-dimensional holographic representation of space, and actually becomes the ship,' says Straczynski. 'Instead of the
usual, 'There's a ship, fire!' and pushing a button, where she points, the ship fires.'"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, this could all be applied to her thinking she is moving her body. Like how VR suites make you think you are walking (flying can be done as well). And the Minbari have shown the technology to simulate memory from their mind.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Various jms posts:

Actually, all sides in battle use ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) to throw off the targeting systems on the "enemy" vessels. But usually it only takes a couple of quick firings to compensate (which is what we've
done).


****<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That merely states the computer targeting system is fooled, you gain a target from sensors be it optical, radar, tachyon based or whatever. Fool the sensors, you fool the gunner. Does not mean it is computer targeted as the gunner uses computer data then manually targets objects himself.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>What the fighters tend to remain engaged with are the Minbari fighters, which are *incredibly* fast...much too fast to target visually.

Space battle's are way to big and fast for a human to be able to hit anything with direct control over the weapons.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then why does the gunner on the Victory/Excalibur manually input targets? They did so at 10,000 km's in ACTA. They cannot TRACK the fighters visually, but they can TARGET them. The computer tracks and relays the data to the pilot, so the pilot inputs the co-ordinates (or whatever) and fires. Just as is seen in ACTA, if the computer did both tasks, then why even bother with a pilot when computers can also pilot fighters (as seen today with recon planes).


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Could you give me a scene refrence for this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Firing off axis - Omega does so against a GOD satelite in endgame.

Firing on co-ordinates - ACTA with the test firing, the gunner enters in co-ordinates and fires. This is seen again in Racing the night at the very least when Gideon asks for them to input the target co-ordinates (or something similar). You can hear them in the background most of the time as well IIRC.


------------------
Marc Cosgrove

"From chaos, order came. As was inevitable." -Summoning light
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
The current BEST state of the art: A computer program/system that has taken over 15 years to develop and has less "intelligence" than a cockroach.
It has a database of close to a Billion "facts" stored and can access them all in seconds.
It still can't Think.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually there's an AI setup in Israel I believe that is taking an abnormal approach to AI. Mostly people want an AI smarter than a human, so they design it to beat adults. What they're doing is treating them like humans, the AI has just been born so now it needs to learn, so are teaching it as if it were a child. I believe it has the mental capacity of a 4-6 year old at the moment. I recall them thinking that they can get it to adult level within a decade. The main problem with that is if you treat it like a human then it will think like one and be subject to faults and the like. Not something you wanna stick in control of an airplane or whatever. But I suppose it'd be good to replace pets, have your own AI friend. Teach social behaviour to children perhaps.

But as we see in B5, they have managed a human level AI... but because of this experienced the same problems above.
laugh.gif
Such as it didn't want to work as a computer, but talk to Garibaldi all day and night.
smile.gif




------------------
Marc Cosgrove

"From chaos, order came. As was inevitable." -Summoning light
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Such as it didn't want to work as a computer, but talk to Garibaldi all day and night.
smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then they must have done very well. If an AI feels lazy and wants to do interesting things instead of repetitive tasks, it already has a healthy degree of intelligence.

Actually there are two fundamental approches to developing AI: top-down and bottom-up.

----------

Top-down:

You build sets of rules, deduction logic and great databases of interlinked facts. You keep adding facts and developing the program until it can draw conclusions and gather new data more-or-less independently.

Problems: requires horrendous amounts of programming, collecting data, formulating rules and so on. In most cases, simply too much.

Possible applications: a program which can guide a maintenace robot, fetch goods in a warehouse, guide a missile, perhaps even drive a car. It performs well in fully mapped situations -- and it won't go testing if it's good to crash with another car.

My estimate: systems like this will eventually become cheaper and more widespread. But they will never reach a level comparable to a human mind -- because they are inherently different from a sentient mind which formulates its own goals and sets its own priorities.

---------

Bottom-up:

A simple but flexible system equipped with evolution algorithms to develop only the parts that work well. It is equipped with sufficient input, just like our minds are equipped with constant input, learning not only from rules, but from experience and experimentation.

Problems: requires some fundamentally very clever programming & architectural solutions. Our computer technology simply doesn't allow the massive parallelism and flexibility of organic life. Oh yes, we can build simulations of neural networks. They run fast but have limited parallelism and are far too rigid in structure.

This approach almost excludes writing pre-defined programs to perform pre-defined tasks. Results may ultimately come close to a sentient mind. Such an AI would have to learn and evolve far enough to communicate with you, after which you could hope that it is willing to answer a few useful questions. What kind of a personality such an AI would have... would probably depend on its architecture, and the environment it grew in.

So, if we learn to bypass some limitations of our current technology, a bottom-up approach may one day produce an AI comparable to a human mind (in at least some tasks). But it would never be of comparable flexibility. It would not be suited for "robot" jobs, but given the right conditions it might help solve science problems, predict weather, crack cryptograms (but not with brute force) and handle other similar tasks.

-----------

There is one rule: you can not jump over your own pet Shadow.
laugh.gif


A single person can't build an AI surpassing his or her own abilities, except in a very, very limited field. Neither can all of mankind build an AI surpassing us in all of our abilities. But given time and some Shadowtech, we can get pretty darn close.

As with all technologies, there is the matter of using it. Every technology can be used for good and harm. And there is another tricky part: if you build an AI which is truly sentient, you should treat it with respect like a fellow sentient.

------------------------

As for computerized weapons control systems: if the system is a good one, it might do a lot on its own. It would have to take independent decisions in fast-paced matters -- until a sentient operator gives further instructions.

But it could not reliably evaluate enemy tactics, find weaknesses in their moves (both sentient & computer guided) and exploit these weaknesses in the right time, place and manner. A computer would not come up with new ideas depending on the situation, employ creativity, false manouvers, and so on...

An example of a computer-guided ship acting on its own: an insane Shadow battlecrab. Destructive, yes. Quick, yes. But quite beatable by a sentient mind. Unable to co-operate with others. Unable to sacrifice its own good for the common good if needed.

But a ship which successfully compensates for the weaknesses of its sentient controller... would be very very dangerous... with a good captain & crew, of course.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited October 30, 2001).]
 

Latest posts

Members online

No members online now.
Back
Top