To Sail Beyond the Stars

Lyta · Mar 30, 2002

Ok, since I will be pretty busy this weekend, I may not get a chance to update my site until Sunday night. Might as well start discussing this week's episode!

Some inital thoughts during the middle of the night ....

Maybe I am being a bit unfair with this episode (especially after some very powerful eps) but I wasn't terribly moved by this ep. I suppose we are being set up for more info but at this point, I am more interested in seeing what happened to the characters and information (Meaghan, laptop, etc.) that has been gathered so far. Now we have seen a goodly number of eps, I have noticed that there is a nice symetry to each episode ... either with Jeremiah's journal to his dad or with some other message like in MoI,WUG.

Some things that have lingered with me ...

<ul type="square">[*]Could Jeremiah/Kurdy/TM do anything with the information on the "wall"?
[*]Who gets fully clothed (including shoes) immediately after sex? Maybe that is a sign of how the new world works ... you have to be ready to go at a moment's notice?
[*]Did Kurdy really deliver babies before? His attitude certainly indicated (as well as saying so) but the shot where he is looking at his hands makes me wonder. Maybe he is just overwhelmed by bringing a life into this world. Still, if he did deliver a baby before, whose was it and why did he help since he has been so cynical about helping in the past?
[*]What do the dog tag numbers mean?
[*]Who are the Burners and are they connected with VS? At the very least, they could be associated with a Michael-like organization?
[*]Notice the biohazard symbol William sketched of the Burners? The same symbol appears on the door to Meaghan's room.
[*]I would have preferred to see more skin of Jeremiah and Claire than of that big nipple lady in the festival. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif We did almost get to see Luke's thing but I would have rather seen another shot of his ass. *evilgrin*
[/list]

Recoil · Mar 30, 2002

I liked it, but as you stated, not quite as much as the ones that came before it.

I did like the Claire story thread, and her wanting to sail across the ocean. Somehow I think that down the road in a season or two we will see here again and when we do it will be quite interesting.

I too am wondering about 'The Wall.' It would seem a waste for someone to go to so much effort, and for it to get left behind like that. Perhaps that other informant will pick up where Eric left off. Maybe not, but either way I hope something comes of it since it seems almost revolutionary for the chaotic world they are all in.

I think we just got a major clue on what Valhalla Sector is. BioHazard symbols, Decontamination Suits, Flame Throwers. Remember the previous episode with Michael saying that people from VS are doing some pretty heavy shit. Coordinated attacks and burning cities to the ground where they think is disease I think would fall under that catagory.

I have a small hunch that says these Burners are from Valhalla Sector (ok that isnt the small hunch, I pretty much do believe that) and that they are on a mission they believe is correct to help cleanse the world of any sign of the big death returning by going around and clensing it with fire. However, since some indications lead us to believe that maybe somehow VS was where the Big Death started, perhaps these guys may be the ones to accidentally re-release it again without knowing and by accident. Maybe that is what Simon meant by 'Its coming again.'

All in all while it wasnt as packed as the 2 previous eps, I did like the Claire and Burner story lines. And there was some suttle things that left me thinking. Guess we have to wait a few more weeks to see where things are going. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

**DONOTDELETE** · Mar 31, 2002

I saw most of it while i was running around doing something else and i thought it was a good episode away from the action for a bit. Ill reserve total judgement till i watch it all tommorow (i love tivo

) But right when Jerimiah saw the dogtags i knew the guys were from V Sector

Lyta · Apr 1, 2002

Originally posted by Recoil:
I did like the Claire story thread, and her wanting to sail across the ocean. Somehow I think that down the road in a season or two we will see here again and when we do it will be quite interesting.

Oooh, that would be very interesting ... a chance to see what is going on in the rest of the world!

I have a small hunch that says these Burners are from Valhalla Sector (ok that isnt the small hunch, I pretty much do believe that) and that they are on a mission they believe is correct to help cleanse the world of any sign of the big death returning by going around and clensing it with fire.

Yes, one is lead to believe that VS on those dog tags means Valhalla Sector and I am thinking pretty much the same as you Recoil. Still, knowing JMS, I have my reservations and so I refuse to make up my mind with so little to go on. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif It could be a red herring or it could be that JMS will show us that maybe VS is not as evil as we are lead to believe. I read on one mailing list that perhaps the Burners are one small group who are beefing up their reputation in order to do what is necessary (killing off the BigD).

However, since some indications lead us to believe that maybe somehow VS was where the Big Death started, perhaps these guys may be the ones to accidentally re-release it again without knowing and by accident. Maybe that is what Simon meant by 'Its coming again.'

I don't know ... if VS is the place where it all started, I would hope they knew they were the cause of the BigD. If they do "accidently" re-release it then they are bigger idiots than I orignially thought. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

All in all while it wasnt as packed as the 2 previous eps, I did like the Claire and Burner story lines. And there was some suttle things that left me thinking. Guess we have to wait a few more weeks to see where things are going. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Yup, yup. Me too. Hmm, guess I should be updating my web site now ... /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif

Recoil · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Lyta:
I don't know ... if VS is the place where it all started, I would hope they knew they were the cause of the BigD. If they do "accidently" re-release it then they are bigger idiots than I orignially thought. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif <hr></blockquote>
Yes, well keep in mind whoever is at Valhalla Sector probably isnt the group of adults who could have come up with whatever caused the Big Death. (if in fact that is where it started). Those people would be dead. It would most likely be kids who have moved into there, just as Marcus moved into Thunder Mountain. They may not fully realize everything yet.

Actually I cant be sure if things did start there, since Jeremiah's parents were looking to GO there. Why would they go there if thats where it started? Unless they thought they could stop it and were doctors or scientists or something. Either way I am still willing to bet those at VS probably dont fully realize what they are dealing with.

Lyta · Apr 1, 2002

Originally posted by Recoil:
Yes, well keep in mind whoever is at Valhalla Sector probably isnt the group of adults who could have come up with whatever caused the Big Death. (if in fact that is where it started). Those people would be dead. It would most likely be kids who have moved into there, just as Marcus moved into Thunder Mountain. They may not fully realize everything yet.

This is very true and since they might not understand ... or they might understand but with no hope of finding/creating a cure on their own in time to prevent re-infection ... so they might be taking drastic measures to save what's left of this world. I am still thinking that there might be adults at VS who have survived the BigD but how would they factor into this equation? *ponders*

This topic has been the subject of many a conversation around our house. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Actually I cant be sure if things did start there, since Jeremiah's parents were looking to GO there. Why would they go there if thats where it started? Unless they thought they could stop it and were doctors or scientists or something. Either way I am still willing to bet those at VS probably dont fully realize what they are dealing with.

Very good points. Once more I will quote JMS:
The word on the street is that are new bunkers for government and military personnel, which are not only nuclear proof but bacteriologically solid and it -may be- that Valhalla Sector is one such operation. 

So, that tells me that VS might be some sort of safe house which is why Jeremiah's parents wanted to go there. Still, if that was the case, then why leave them behind? Then there is Captain Iron's reaction to the name VS and the image that he might have been experimented on? I wish we had some more clues about how the BigD happened and what the symptoms are. /ubbthreads/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Here is one more question that I hope someone will answer or at least help me speculate on:

They were next to a coastline so, where exactly were they?

haze · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Lyta:
Here is one more question that I hope someone will answer or at least help me speculate on:

They were next to a coastline so, where exactly were they?<hr></blockquote>

I'm wondering the same thing. It would seem like a coastline would be pretty far away from Thunder Mountain also.

That leads me to another question. Since Thunder Mountain has their primary supply of gas, are they driving around with a large supply of gas cans in the back so they have enough to get back? I wouldn't think that they'd leave it to chance on finding or bartering for more.

- Haze

gangster · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by haze:
I'm wondering the same thing. It would seem like a coastline would be pretty far away from Thunder Mountain also.

That leads me to another question. Since Thunder Mountain has their primary supply of gas, are they driving around with a large supply of gas cans in the back so they have enough to get back? I wouldn't think that they'd leave it to chance on finding or bartering for more.

- Haze<hr></blockquote>

One major point on gasoline and operating vehicles: Those would be prime targets others would literally kill to get their hands on.

Lyta · Apr 1, 2002

Originally posted by haze:
That leads me to another question. Since Thunder Mountain has their primary supply of gas, are they driving around with a large supply of gas cans in the back so they have enough to get back? I wouldn't think that they'd leave it to chance on finding or bartering for more.

Exactly! Plus, Jeremiah wasn't too upset when Claire took a portion of their gas so that is a bit odd if you are far away from TM. Maybe they have stashes in various places to refuel but that is a bit risky unless you have people you trust to guard it too. Does TM have that big and reliable network to operate like that?

gangster · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Lyta:
Originally posted by haze:
That leads me to another question. Since Thunder Mountain has their primary supply of gas, are they driving around with a large supply of gas cans in the back so they have enough to get back? I wouldn't think that they'd leave it to chance on finding or bartering for more.

Exactly! Plus, Jeremiah wasn't too upset when Claire took a portion of their gas so that is a bit odd if you are far away from TM. Maybe they have stashes in various places to refuel but that is a bit risky unless you have people you trust to guard it too. Does TM have that big and reliable network to operate like that?<hr></blockquote>

They would have to have caches and people to guard. This is but one of the big holes I find with Jeremiah's plot, albeit it is scifi. I guess what I am saying that to me it isn't logical that much of the "pre-Big Die" stuff used still would be operating and that what was would be put in harms way so casually since every item/supply would be a prime target for everyone. It would be like the girl said, "I want my share." and would do everything within their power to get it.

channe · Apr 1, 2002

I don't think it does, Lyta. Markus doesn't know much about the outside world other than what his teams tell him; and it's obvious he doesn't REALLY understand how it works, when he's faced with Jeremiah and Kurdy.

I like to think that when we find out what Valhalla Sector really is, the sparks are gonna fly.

drakh · Apr 1, 2002

Valhalla...

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Recoil:
Yes, well keep in mind whoever is at Valhalla Sector probably isnt the group of adults who could have come up with whatever caused the Big Death. (if in fact that is where it started). Those people would be dead.<hr></blockquote>Maybe... maybe not. Think of the name.

Valhalla - Where warriors went when they died in battle, to live out eternity in carless feasting and fighting.

Lyta · Apr 2, 2002

Originally posted by channe:
I don't think it does, Lyta. Markus doesn't know much about the outside world other than what his teams tell him; and it's obvious he doesn't REALLY understand how it works, when he's faced with Jeremiah and Kurdy.

I didn't think so either but it just makes me wonder how much ground -are- they covering. I mean to get to a coastal town on what the rover's gas tank holds? Even if they stock up on gas before they go, it seems pretty risky.

Here is a United States and of <a target="_blank" href=http://www.elca.org/dgm/country_packet/packets/latin_america-caribbean/mexico/map.jpg>Mexico</a>.

Could they have made it to San Diego? To the Gulf of California?

gangster · Apr 2, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Lyta:


Could they have made it to San Diego? To the Gulf of California?<hr></blockquote>

Not if TM is Cheyenne Mountain but whose to say this is the case. TM could easily have been a secret government facility located in the Cascades, say Oregon, Washington or Northern California, which would make a trip to the ocean possible.

Lyta · Apr 2, 2002

Originally posted by gangster:
Not if TM is Cheyenne Mountain but whose to say this is the case.

I suppose anything is possible but I thought they made pretty clear that TM -was- NORAD which is at the Cheyenne Mountain facility. It shows it quite clearly in many of the shots that we have seen.

gangster · Apr 2, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Lyta:
Originally posted by gangster:
Not if TM is Cheyenne Mountain but whose to say this is the case.

I suppose anything is possible but I thought they made pretty clear that TM -was- NORAD which is at the Cheyenne Mountain facility. It shows it quite clearly in many of the shots that we have seen.<hr></blockquote>

They could just as easily, for this series, moved NORAD to some other location. A sidebar: The blast doors are the type used at a NIKE site (all long shut down,) not Cheyenne Mountain. <LOL>

Lyta · Apr 2, 2002

Originally posted by gangster:
They could just as easily, for this series, moved NORAD to some other location.

Hmm, so you are saying that by 2006, NORAD would get relocated to another facility? I don't see that happening. Just because Jeremiah is set in the future, it is based off the reality we have today.

Theophilus · Apr 2, 2002

One minor hole in the plotline...

Gasoline (unlike diesel, I believe) does not store long-term unless you've added a stabilizing agent to it. So, conceivably, Thunder Mountain's supply could have been stabilized for long-term storage (although 15 years would seem to be pushing it), as would other military supplies like Michael's. But the chances of anyone else having ANY good gasoline left seems minimal.

What these guys should be doing is going back to alcohol. Petroleum cracking technology is way beyond them, but alcohol distillation isn't. (Indeed, I think alcohol distillation is one of the first things that would always be resurrected after any collapse, for obvious reasons.) It's possible but very tricky to run an internal combustion engine on it (remember Back to the Future III?), but a steam engine run on alcohol would certainly be possible. A steam engine can run on anything that burns, in fact, but using alcohol would allow them to carry more concentrated energy along with them for emergencies. In fact, the way a steam buggy would probably work is that for non-emergency use they'd chop wood, and only use the alcohol when they had to run away from people.

Things decay faster than people do, and although with proper care a good firearm will last 100 years, ammunition does not. True, we did see shells being collected in the pilot for reloading (why didn't they attach a bag to catch their shells?). Making gunpowder is fairly easy, but it's not the same as the stuff used in modern guns. (Modern ammo uses "smokeless powder", and while it's not really smokeless, you'll think it is after firing an old-fashioned black powder weapon.) And making primers is a whole order of magnitude more difficult. An assault rifle beats a crossbow hands down in a firefight, but in the long run a crossbow is a lot more useful.

I guess I'm simply echoing what a previous poster said. It seems to me that there is too much that is still working from the old world. I'd appreciate seeing some focus on homegrown technology, like the steam engine in the pilot.

All that aside, I still like the show, and if JMS is producing it, I'll be watching it!

Theophilus · Apr 2, 2002

One other thought. Have we yet had a discussion of all the OTHER plagues that followed the Big D? With six billion bodies lieing around, and all the survivors being kids who don't know diddly about survival sanition, I expect that the Big Death wouldn't be the only bug biting people, and the kids wouldn't be immune to them.

Oh, well, it IS science fiction, after all.

gangster · Apr 2, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Lyta:
Originally posted by gangster:
They could just as easily, for this series, moved NORAD to some other location.

Hmm, so you are saying that by 2006, NORAD would get relocated to another facility? I don't see that happening. Just because Jeremiah is set in the future, it is based off the reality we have today.<hr></blockquote>

I real life, I don't see it happening either, but this is Scifi so anything is possible.

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