Why are people complaining about Rotk ending??

[KoshN]

The ending of the movie was just right. I think Peter Jackson did a great job with the overall pacing of the story. IMO, the books were very badly paced.

First of all, I loved "Return of the King."

However, to someone who hasn't read the book (...yet; have it, but it's 7th down on my list to read.), it seemed like the movie ended several times, first with the coronation, then with the ship, and then in the shire. However, I guess it was in the book that way.

I glanced at the book, and am glad Jackson cut almost all of the singing.

 

[Bester]

it seemed like the movie ended several times, first with the coronation, then with the ship, and then in the shire. However, I guess it was in the book that way.

Actually, the ending in the book is much more drawn-out and includes...



...SPOILER FOR THE BOOK...



...a final confrontation with Saruman in Hobbiton.

 

[superbob]

All I can say is read the book after watching the movie. Personally I didn't like the way it was ended but hey, Peter Jackson worked with what he had.

 

[GKarsEye]

Extended Edition DVD rumour:

SPOILER?
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7 minutes of the scouring of the Shire

 

[PillowRock]

Extended Edition DVD rumour:

SPOILER?
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.
.
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.

7 minutes of the scouring of the Shire

What I have seen that I believe gave rise to that rumor:

(Which means that GKE's

S P O I L E R

W A R N I N G

F O R

E E . D V D

is still in effect)


I have seen that there is a 7 minute sequence that is a final confrontation with Saruman. Someone who had read the books but seen nothing else would probably assume that this would be the Scouring of the Shire. However, I can remember quotes and reports going back to when they were initially shooting in NZ that have all consistently said that no Scouring footage was being shot. Also, I have seen a discussion with PJ talking about how that sequence was originally intended for the end of TTT, but was cut because it felt anti-climatic after Helm's Deep. That pushed it into the early part of RotK, but it didn't make the theatrical cut of that because it felt more like cleaning up the last movie than starting this new one. That sounds to me like Saruman will meet his end (in the EE of the movie) still at Isengard, or nearby.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

I also remember reading comments from Jackson fairly early in the shooting schedule about the "Scouring of the Shire" being dropped entirely at the script stage. I was a little disappointed when I read that, but having seen the films and given the matter some additional thought I believe he made the right decision.

I have seen that there is a 7 minute sequence that is a final confrontation with Saruman.

That makes more sense. You couldn't even explain why the Shire needed "scouring" in seven minutes, much less show it happening and detailing Sauraman's fate. (As I recall the final scene with Wormtongue and Sharky at Bag End would last longer than seven minutes on screen. )

And it would just feel too "tacked on" at the end of a very long movie, as I noted above. Given that this was not in the cards there was no particular reason to keep Sauraman around after Helm's Deep, so offing him around that time also makes sense. I can see why Jackson had trouble placing the scene, though, and think he was right to relegate it to the EE, which is going to be a very different viewing experience anyway. In effect he's done two adaptations of LotR, a theatrical version and a "home edition", and I'm sure both will be superb when finished. (In fact, I plan to buy both on DVD, so I can watch whichever version I'm in the mood for.)

Regards,

Joe

 

[GKarsEye]

Ok, that makes more sense.
I was just passing on a rumour, FWIW.

A couple of friends unfamiliar with the novels expressed disappointment that Saruman didn't show up at all in the last film (as I'm sure some of you are, I'm consider the "expert" now 'cause I read the books).

As much as I love this stuff, I'm not even buying the theatrical DVDs. I'm such a DVD junky that I'm come to think of the DVD as the "real" movie (because I can watch it when I please). With Rings, it's like the theatrical film is the intro, or the taste, and the EE DVDs is the real deal. I know Jackson said the theatrical versions are the "real" or final cuts, but I just don't think of it that way.

 

[PillowRock]

With Rings, it's like the theatrical film is the intro, or the taste, and the EE DVDs is the real deal. I know Jackson said the theatrical versions are the "real" or final cuts, but I just don't think of it that way.

I think that you are far, far from being alone in that. I know that I am another one who tends to think of the EE of the LotR films as the "real" final edit. The theatrical cuts feel more like a movie being shown on TV that has been cut to fit into the time slot (as opposed to cutting certain content for TV).

 

[Zathras]

I think I made a big mistake. I started reading the books right after I saw The Fellowship Of The Ring . I was 1/4 way through TTT when I saw the movie. But I had finished ROTK before I saw the film. I liked the first two a lot better not having read the books all the way through. I found myself doing too much nitpicking during ROTK and I wasn't able to enjoy it the way I enjoyed the first two flicks.

I think that Jackson could have done an entire (regular length) movie just about the scouring of the Shire. Even with a thousand pages of action and adventure leading up to it, the last two chapters of ROTK are my favorites. I would have loved to have seen them on the screen, but I understand that, as written, LOTR just wouldn't make a well-paced movie. Jackson made the right choice and still conveyed the feeling that our heroic Hobbits no longer really fit into the slow paced life of the Shire. They were more than they had been. They had seen things and met people (and trees) that the other Hobbits could never dream of. After an experience like that, you're never really the same again.

 

[Quagmire]

Having previously read the books I find the second viewing of each movie is more enjoyable. The first one gets any nitpicking out of the way and allows me to simply enjoy what's there the second time.

 

[superbob]

Funnily enough I found the exact thing happened to me. The first time around I already had a LOTR checklist running around in my head. Once I had found all the ommited bits and pieces I rewatched the first two and really enjoyed them. I'm hoping I'll have the same result with ROTK

 

[Bab5nutz]

When I first saw TTT in the theatre, I went through the whole movie mentally going "Eek!" And this was even though I knew about the changes. It was only when I saw it for about the third time, that I could actually enjoy the movie for itself, rather than just compare it with the book.
With ROTK, too, I knew about the changes in advance. But this time I did not go "Eek!" throughout the whole film. If I have a complaint about ROTK, it is about what was left out, rather than what was changed. Okay, cutting Saruman's exit makes sense - I didn't like it, but I understood it. It would haave made some sense to have left in the reason as to just why Denethor was so clued-up about what was going on, and just why he lost his marbles and decided on staging what has to be the weirdest barbecue ever! Not to mention, tying up Eowyn's story.

Hopefully, these things will be recitified in the ROTK-EE.
Like a lot of people, I consider the Extended Editons to be the true editions. And I greatly look forward to the ROTK edition.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Not to mention, tying up Eowyn's story.

Well, I did notice some otherwise unexplained "significant looks" between Eowyn and Faramir during Aragorn's coronation/wedding scene, so I'm sure this is covered in the EE.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Zathras]

I guess they could have added one more "ending" while they were at it - the "love story ending."


And while Jackson's adding endings...

I would have liked to have seen a "Scooby-Doo Ending" where Sauron says, "And I'd have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for that darned Fellowship...and their blasted Hobbits!"

 

[Elenopa]

I would have liked to have seen a "Scooby-Doo Ending" where Sauron says, "And I'd have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for that darned Fellowship...and their blasted Hobbits!"

ROTFL

 

[Oatley1]

Re: reading the books before watching the films.

I deliberately avoided the books during the past few years after I heard the LOTR was being made, so that I would not be potentially disappointed with what was made, and what was left out. And I think that I made the right choice. I am planning on re-reading them in the next three months or so.

And speaking of the forthcoming ROTK EE, with the inclusion of Saruman's death, the Palantir/Denethor stuff, Eowyn/Faramir, the Mouth of Sauron (which I believe was shot), and who knows what else, the EE will be over 4 hours long!

Has anyone heard whether the crowning of Eomer on the Pelennor Fields after Theoden's death was ever filmed?

 

[superbob]

I guess they could have added one more "ending" while they were at it - the "love story ending."


And while Jackson's adding endings...

I would have liked to have seen a "Scooby-Doo Ending" where Sauron says, "And I'd have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for that darned Fellowship...and their blasted Hobbits!"

Either that or have Ashton come out and yell "punked" 'ccos frodo kept the ring and has become the mini me version of Sauron.

 

[Bab5nutz]

The Lord of the Rings, Return of the King Visual Companion mentions the Mouth of Sauron. The author had some contact with the filmmakers, and had some access to behind the scenes information, so I think we can be sure that it was filmed.

 

[Shism]

Please remind me, it has been several years since I read lotr, what's the 'mouth of sauron' again?

 

[GKarsEye]

Has anyone heard whether the crowning of Eomer on the Pelennor Fields after Theoden's death was ever filmed?

I don't know, but I'm gonna guess no, because in the movie Theoden told Eowyn that she was to rule after him.

I'm a bit dissappointed they didn't show any romance between Eowyn and Faramir. If they do that in the EE, my impression is that they would marry and Faramir would help rule Rohan with his queen wife, also helping to strengthen the unity between Rohan and Gondor.