A message from Christopher Pike

[Dylan Neal]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Dylan -

If you have an opportunity, drop me an e-mail at sturmer40@hotmail.com

I'd like to take the discussion "off-list", as it were... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tobias, I'd rather keep my comments on this board for now. Hope you understand.

Cheers,

Dylan

------------------

 

[SataiDelenn]

Dark Lord, I apologise, it seems I have expressed some similar thoughts to those you expressed earlier!

That'll teach me to get a splash exasperated part way throug and jump ahead to post without reading everything written before hand!

Anyway... my apologies!

Great minds think alike!

------------------
Sheridan: "It's... damn inconvienient!"
Delenn: "The truth often is."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

.]

[This message has been edited by Tobias Clutch (edited October 18, 2001).]

 

[alex zahara]

Hey there it's Alex Zahara here aka Dulann. I haven't the time for a long response but I will provide one soon, anyway here goes. Mr. Pike, if your job could be at stake if your identity is revealed then it sounds to me that you have committed a breach of trust somewhere along the line and should never have morally or legally written about what you had seen. (I think that stands to reason given your own statements.) Next, you musn't have watched the film to closely because you have made some glaring mistakes and assumptions about who "The Hand" are. Missing major and minor plot points like (the identity of Alien bad guys) reads not like the writing of a seasoned reviewer but that of a potentaily jaded fan of Sci Fi. Now I agree that there is room for improvement in this project if it goes to series, which would be a natural progression. If you are able to look at a project and judge it on it's own then see where your review goes that is find however, "comparison", is just that. I will read your full "review" in future and other posting but for now I will sum up, (and ask for forgiveness on any and all spelling and gramatical errors, I speak the words, I don't write them). So Mr.Pike, if you are not willing or able to stand by your "credentials", for fear of losing your job then perhaps it's best to leave the reviewing to the legitemate reviewers, when the film airs and sign out of cyber space for a while. I know it's safe here and no one gets to know who you are.
I accept all critic's and fan's points of view, and I put myself out there to take the shots, as do thousands of other artists, (including reviewers.)

------------------
Dulann

 

[Dekion]

Someone may have asked this one already, and if so I am sorry...

Why even bother doing another review when someone at Aint It Cool News already did and liked it. Did the "violent" Trekkies rebel and tear down the walls?

------------------

 

[drakh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ala:
Each time I've seen a source sensitively provide direct information, rather than via Anthony, they are interrogated. While it's understandable to have a healthy skepticism, it actually discourages folks with information from passing it on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But on the other side of the coin - without some fact checking, any misfit with a grudge against B5 can get their jollies by coming in here and making the True-Belivers squirm. There has be some sort of trust established at first... and it could be as simple as contacting Antony by email first, and getting him to vouch for them. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I can assure you that is exactly how I've felt (and apologies to those who've heard these comments privately from me in the past; I know you understand).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I certainly hope that's not me included there... I've only asked questions because I'm curious. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Previously JoeD suggested you trust my information. This time I suggest you trust Chris. I have reason to believe he is reliable. Only you can decide whether you agree with his views or not. That's a different question.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Pike behaved himself civily, and should at the very least be treated the same back. I belive his review to be sincere, though I doubt I'll agree with it much.

"Tobias Clutch", however, was crawling pretty high up my grudge meter...


------------------
You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert

[This message has been edited by drakh (edited October 19, 2001).]

 

[raindog]

I think it's just hilarious that people are slamming the insider for "violating his moral code' or whatever. If he had posted a positive review we would have all been back-slapping him and saying "Yay Pike! Fight da man!" (Of course, then Knowles would either have not published his review or not named him Pike....)

As for me, I got what I needed to out of one line of the review. "Better than Crusade." As I posted in talkbacks on AICN, I loved Crusade! Editing out commercials from the 13 episodes of the chain reaction last week just made me remember how awesome it was, and I think its good episodes repeat better than B5.

So bring on Rangers! And I hope Cole, Woodward, Kim and/or Dobro are available for some guest star gigs in another year or two

------------------

 

[raindog]

Oh yeah, and here's a link to the original (pre-FX) Rangers review from AICN (admittedly prefaced by *another* AICN reviewer who professes not to like B5.) It provides a much more positive take and I dare anyone to fault the reviewer's anonymity

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=9622

And here is Joe's take on the Pike review, from Usenet: (hope the URL isn't too long)

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=20011018031452.01706.00000605%40mb-ma.aol.c om

I gotta agree with his assessment about AICN, it's a little too Jay and Silent Bob to take seriously anymore, but I still read Coaxial now and then.


------------------

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dekion:
Someone may have asked this one already, and if so I am sorry...

Why even bother doing another review when someone at Aint It Cool News already did and liked it. Did the "violent" Trekkies rebel and tear down the walls?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could be because the first review was of the unfinished version.

Though I think it's because -

First review: Seemingly Trek bias, thought the movie was good.
Second review: Seemingly B5 bias, thought the movie was bad.

The universe has a funky sense of humour.


------------------
BETH: "Well all I did was go for a really long walk."
JIMMY: "Where'd you go?"
BETH: "I don't know... I mean... all over the city, I guess... and then somehow I ended up standing outside Bill's apartment building and... I wanted to make sure he was... really gone, you know... so I figured out which window was his and then I just started yelling, you know, "BILL, HEY BILL!!!"
JIMMY: "And then what happened?"
BETH: "Well, finally someone opened their window and yelled down, "Shut the hell up you crazy bitch!"
JOE: "That's just what Bill would've done."
BETH: "Yeah, and that just made me think... his spirit lives on in others." - Newsradio

 

[hypatia]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by raindog:
I think it's just hilarious that people are slamming the insider for "violating his moral code' or whatever. If he had posted a positive review we would have all been back-slapping him and saying "Yay Pike! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is not true in my case. You see, I have a "moral code" that I am required to adhere to for my job. The difference is: I adhere to it. When someone with the best of intentions asks about a student's grade (their son, friend, whatever) I might WANT to help them out, but I can't. It's a violation of the privacy act. Even if the person is PAYING for their son, friend, whatever to go to college, I still have to follow the law. I can only reveal the student's grade to that student or to a college employee with a valid reason to know.

If he had to sign a job description saying he would not review this project, he should either quit his job and find another, or stick to his contract. Lots of us DO, you know. It wouldn't kill him.

------------------
"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey guys!
It is just one review (since when has anyone liked any of the shows recommended by AICN?).
Seriously, I think Pike is entitled to his views and he was brave enough to come here and expand upon them.
It doesn't bother me too much. Pilots are always difficult with so little time to impress. AICN rubbished Crusade to the point where I was expecting the worst show in TV history, but despite it's production difficulties-I thought Crusade was excellent.
So maybe we will feel the same way about Rangers? The only difference though is that Crusade had 13 episodes in which it proved it had real potential - Rangers has just 90 minutes.
If SCI-FI follow their instincts, they will commission Rangers as a series because it *will* get better.
We all know that (just check out the online Crusade scripts for pure quality).

------------------
'I plan to live forever, or die trying' - Villa Blake's 7

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tobias Clutch:
Crusade did have a pilot - it was called A CALL TO ARMS, and set up an infinitely better series premise had Boxleitner - through clouded circumstances - not been removed from the picture in the period prior to Crusade.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"A Call to Arms" was not a "pilot" for Crusade. JMS has said as much.

Boxleitner/Sheridan was never intended to captain the Excalibur.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jomar:
This really is a very nasty review, whether that was intended or not. It sounds like a rabid Star Fan who is trying to destroy the opposition before it even hits the air.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, this would be par for the course.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>If SCI-FI follow their instincts, they will commission Rangers as a series<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And if they would ask me, I would commission it basing on the trailer alone.

------------------
"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drakh:
I beg to differ. While there may be issues with the execution, there was clearly an arc developing.

It had to do with the impact of the plague, and it's "cure", on Earth. It had to do with elements of Earth Force playing around things that they shouldn't have... things they may not be entirely in control of. It had to do with the Techno-Mages, and their stake in the other threads. It had to do with Gideon's self-righteousness and increasing moral ambiguity... The price he'd have to pay for relying on the Apocalypse Box to provide easy solutions. And that's just tip of the ice berg.

While I'm at it, I'd like to say that I liked Crusade. It was flawed, but the characterization of Gideon and Max was a joy to watch. They were both fun characters.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Galen interesting too (I gather a number of Crusade "detractors" changed their opinion of him after reading the Techno-Mage novels).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Coming from A Call to Arms, Galen was immediately my favorite character in Crusade. Later, gradually, I grew to appreciate and like the rest, at least to a certain degree.

In Most Favorite to Least Favorite Characters, I'd rank them as follows (main and recurring cast only):

Galen
Max Eilerson
Dureena Nafeel
John Matheson
Matthew Gideon
... large gap...
Elizabeth Lochley
Sarah Chambers
Trace


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
And the episodes... The first one jms holds up as close to what he wanted Crusade to be, the unproduced To The Ends of the Earth, is probably the one that puts away my doubt that the Crusade is crap crowd is right, and that I'm just an idiot fanboy deluding myself. It was intense, fast paced, and I'd put it above its B5 equivalent (Signs and Portents).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I feel extremely cheated, by TNT, in not being allowed to see To the Ends of the Earth and End of the Line.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 19, 2001).]

 

[bakana]

One misconception I keep seeing here is that TNT cancelled Crusade.
They didn't.


JMS pulled the plug on the show because TNT's MBA contingent had become too idiotic to live with.

Life is too short to put up with that sort of stress.

Trying to write a quality show while some lobotomized MBA tosses metaphoric horse apples at the back of your head is Not something anyone should have to put up.

Eventually, JMS decided He was "Anyone".
And he put Crusade on the shelf.

Whether it ever gets pulled back Off the shelf remains to be seen.



------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

 

[drakh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
JMS pulled the plug on the show because TNT's MBA contingent had become too idiotic to live with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No. Jms just stopped listening to them. They were the ones who ceased the funding.

He did however walk off the show earlier, but was persuaded to come back again by Netter and WB.


------------------
You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KoshN:
And I feel extremely cheated, by TNT, in not being allowed to see To the Ends of the Earth and End of the Line.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed! I even warmed more to the charactors of Crusade then those of B5.
Its a shame that some B5 fans continue to rubbish the series when the online scripts were a mere hint of what Crusade would hold.
A how any so-called fan of B5 can remain unimpressed by the complications of The Apocolypse Box is simply beyond me.

------------------
'I plan to live forever, or die trying' - Villa Blake's 7

[This message has been edited by orac (edited October 19, 2001).]

 

[Lord_Refuh]

WhatEver!

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> The plug has not been pulled by TNT, which cannot pull the plug because we don't work for TNT, we work for WB. TNT is a distributer.

All I can say for now is that, like Oliver Stone's project for TNT, Witchblade, we have found that TNT (known primarily for westerns, historical dramas and wrestling) is not SF-friendly in terms of really getting what SF is about, and it may not entirely reconcile with what their core audience expects from them...and that a new, more SF friendly venue is being explored.

So if folks wanted to drop an encouraging note to, let's say, the Sci-Fi Channel, for instance, that would certainly be okay by me.

But in the interim...no, we're not canceled. We're taking off next week to allow WB to work its magic, but that's about it.
jms <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Various posts over the years have made it clear that JMS, Warner & TNT pulled the plug together.

JMS was unhappy with TNT.
Warner was unhappy with TNT.
TNT wanted to interfere in the Writing, even though JMS had a Contract that guaranteed HIM the final say.
This little conflict made TNT's MBAs pout a lot.

Eventually, they all agreed to disagree and the show stopped production before it even aired.

It wasn't Cancelled, per se.
They aired all the episodes that were filmed.
They just never filmed any More.
It's a subtle distinction.

------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!