B5:TLT - Show Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[crazyhorse]

I knew the film was reduced for time restriants but I never knew when that happened.For some reason I thought some Mars cgi effects had been done but I'm happy to be wrong.

I probably got it mixed up with something else

 

[grumbler]

Why do people seem to need to be shown Lochley saying, "Nope, not a telepath" in order to realize that she's discounted other possibilities off-screen and that it's all just not important to the story? I again come back to Sheridan's line in an episode of B5: "Ambassador, there are so many things in the universe that are, and so many things that aren't. If I were to take the time to deny all the things that aren't, we'd be here for centuries, wouldn't we."

Exactly. And a telepath can only work within line-of-sight of the target, so that explanation just does not hunt.

The whole point of the story is Lochley's realization that Asmodeus wasn't "bound out among the stars" as he claimed, but actually bound to Earth as a prison. The story is not about all the things that Asmodeus isn't. It isn't even about what Asmodeus truly is, which is why we don't ever get an answer-on-a-platter as to his true nature. The story is about the arrival at understanding; it's about being confronted with what appears to be only two options, but realizing that the truth lies in the third if only one adjusts the way one is thinking.

Precisely. It is curious that JMS chose this particular dilemma and solution, but the story is about Lochley's dilemma, not about her religious beliefs, if any.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

And therein lies the link between the two stories ... both have the central character presented with a dilemma, and the guts of the story is how they deal with that dilemma. Ultimately, it matters not what the dilemma is, just that it exists and its resolution is interesting enough in itself to hold the audience's attention.

 

[KoshN]

Exactly. And a telepath can only work within line-of-sight of the target, so that explanation just does not hunt.

Season 4 - Minbari teeps can influence Shadow Battlecrabs from deep within Minbari warcruisers, not in line of sight of the ships they are immobilizing.

Season 5 - Lyta can see around corners (finding the path out of where Byron and his group are). Byron and his teeps can influence others through walls. Lyta can control a roomful of normals while not looking at them.

 

[Sindatur]

Season 4 - Minbari teeps can influence Shadow Battlecrabs from deep within Minbari warcruisers, not in line of sight of the ships they are immobilizing.

Season 5 - Lyta can see around corners (finding the path out of where Byron and his group are). Byron and his teeps can influence others through walls. Lyta can control a roomful of normals while not looking at them.

Lyta is an exception, the Teeps under Byron were working together. I got nothing for the Minbari teeps, though

 

[Galahad]

You're forgetting something.

P rating

Commercially rated teeps probably do need to be on a line of sight... and up to a certain point (even after she wasn't merely that) Lyta thought she was a commercial teep.

Byron was a Psi Cop - P12 and yet he projected Bo into the mind of a starfury pilot.

So I think it's a little more complex than minbari can, human can't.

 

[crazyhorse]

Thirdspace telepaths could do it through dimensions if there was just a tiny crack open.

Telepaths cannot be contained to human abilities although even there we see exceptions.

The fact remains that he was "possessed" by a being alien to him and that this being was in control.

I was more surprised that there was no telepath there helping Lochley actually as I think this would be right up there street.

 

[vacantlook]

You know, it just hit me: while we don't have Lochley specifically say on-screen that they've discounted Simon being a human telepath as a possibility, we can rest very assured that she's done so based off of what she does actually say on screen. She tells Father Cassidy about how at one point they found Simon and the room covered in DNA-less blood. That's something far outside the realm of a telepath, and that occurance would cause Lochley to very quickly go, "Well, him being a telepath is definitely not it." We don't need to hear her say anything at all about the possibility of Simon being a telepath because Asmodeus's spontaneous creation of DNA-less blood all over the place takes care of that.

 

[crazyhorse]

Unless he was some mad Psi Core experiment

 

[crazyhorse]

Except there is no Psi Core Doh

Or are they just hiding somewhere

 

[vacantlook]

Except there is no Psi Core Doh

Or are they just hiding somewhere

At the center of things, perhaps?

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Yeah, they didn't really lose the telepath war/crisis ... they have just convinced the mundanes that they did.

 

[grumbler]

Season 4 - Minbari teeps can influence Shadow Battlecrabs from deep within Minbari warcruisers, not in line of sight of the ships they are immobilizing.

As we know, the Minbari have ways of projecting "sight" deep within their own vessels (we see this during many battles).

Season 5 - Lyta can see around corners (finding the path out of where Byron and his group are).

Not sure what this refers to. It is possible that some episodes "broke the rule" but I cannot think of one.

Byron and his teeps can influence others through walls.

Only those touching the walls. This appears to be an exception to a rule that is stated many times in the series.

Lyta can control a roomful of normals while not looking at them.

"In line of sight" does not mean "under observation" though most examples in the series are of subjects under observation.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

Line of sight means in a straight line the way the telepath's head is pointing. According to the books a wall in the way reduces the strength of the signal and makes aiming much harder.

 

[babylonfan]

All those "Lyta did this" and "Lyta did that" examples are very nice. But Lyta was of course a special telepath. I think she should be kept out of the discussion on the capabilities of mundane telepats.

Also, we know different species got different skills. Remember for instance the Centauri emperor who always carried a few telepats with him to keep in direct contact with home(S2/E9, "the coming of shadows")? Quite clearly they where not in a line of sight with eachother.

Or how about Lorien? He manages to project the negotiations between Sheridan/Delenenn and the Vorlon/Shadows to everyone in the fleet (S4/E6, "into the fire").

Those are just 2 examples. More can be found if you wanted.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

mundane telepats

Isn't that an oxymoron?



As far as I can remember, this whole requirement for a telepath to be in line of sight was only ever discussed in the context of human telepaths in the show. We don't know the capabilities of Minbari or Centauri telepaths etc. specifically, do we?

 

[grumbler]

As far as I can remember, this whole requirement for a telepath to be in line of sight was only ever discussed in the context of human telepaths in the show. We don't know the capabilities of Minbari or Centauri telepaths etc. specifically, do we?

Good point. But not relevant in this episode, which featured a human.

 

[mattikake]

Hi all,

just like to add comment that I bought this the other day and thought it was pretty decent.

The first episode started out good and all mystery-esq but ended up a bit so-so B5 standalone IMO, but I did like JMS's interesting addenum to faith. 2nd episode with Sheridan was great though. Really enojyed that one, but then I'm a baised fan of his character and BB's acting and I wasn't sure what hard-as-nails Sheridan would do right up until when you were supposed to know...

Loved the CGI. B5 remake with the new CGI anyone a la Star Wars? Hell I would! Couldn't take that much man power and budget to redo this. B5 special edition.

Not sure if I'd want to fork out £12 or so for only 60 mins of B5 stuff for standalone TLT's though. And more to the point, what was actually 'lost' about these tales? Seems to me to be some we just hadn't heard of YET, but not actually 'lost'? I think JMS should do a mini-series of stories - say 4 - 8 episodes like these. There's loads that wasn't covered in-depth from B5 that could be elaborated on here. A mini-series would also be great to tell the story of Valen as well.

In short, more please!

 

[KoshN]

All those "Lyta did this" and "Lyta did that" examples are very nice. But Lyta was of course a special telepath. I think she should be kept out of the discussion on the capabilities of mundane telepats.

And yet Lyta needed line of sight when she was trying to activate the teeps on the Earthforce Destroyers from the surface of Mars.


I'm not commenting on "mundane telepaths" because GaribaldisHair beat me to it.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Good point. But not relevant in this episode, which featured a human.

Yeah, sorry ... I got distracted by the tangent that had developed whereby people were discussing the fact that Minbari telepaths were able to go against shadow vessels when they clearly didn't have line of sight of them, rather than on TLT directly.