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B5:TLT - Show Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

I'm posting this without reading anything else, yet. :LOL:

From Jade in the News thread:
think this qualifies as news... I just saw a TV ad for B5 TLT.
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I was wondering how former B5 fans were supposed to know about this. I mean, how many don't visit B5 messageboards, like this one?

On the other hand, I haven't watched anything other than Dr. Who that might be have an audience familiar with/interested in B5.

But it is good news it's getting some advertising. It seemed to be a board secret.
 
The DVD has only just gone on sale. We have all been ordering advance copies. The shops really advertise goods until they have the good to sell.
 
I wonder if they counted me twice. :LOL:

I forgot to update my credit card info, and just caught it by accident. My shipping date hasn't changed, it still says August 2nd, so I must have caught it in time, before I suffered a delay.

3 again, wow. And this is for a DVD kind of short-story thing of a show that's been off the air how many years now? 10?

You gotta give this show credit: it has, somehow, survived. :)

I wonder if there will be another, smaller surge when people really start seeing the ads for it. :)
 
RMcD said:
It isn't really an ordinary pilot in the sense that future installments are going to depend on sales figures, not viewing figures. If someone switches off because they get bored with the opening scenes it doesn't matter, because the copy you are watching has already been paid for.
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Ok, perhaps the TV-pilot analogy doesn't quite hold up, but the same logic can be applied to DVD. For that matter, I also can't even remember a conflict-driven sci-fi/fantasy straight-to-dvd-movie that began with a lengthy exchange of thoughts.

TLT really needed more spectacle in its opening moments. Something that grabs you and doesn’t let you go. Not because of viewing or sales figures, just because that's what great conflict-driven sci-fi/fantasy is all about.

Also, people will rent or buy TLT based on reviews, which will mention the slow start as a detriment to the enjoyment that can be had. Second, a purchase may depend on a rental. Therefore, besides an obvious structural mistake, this is also a commercial one.

RMcD said:
And I still think TLT exists primarily as a thankyou to the B5 cast, and secondarily for the enjoyment of B5's existing fans.
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So if I feel that TLT doesn't live up to B5 standards (in some regards), that's because it was never meant to? I respectfully disagree. All entertainment should primarily be made for the enjoyment of an audience, and secondary for the enjoyment of the artist. Isn't that what an artist strives for: to captivate an audience? If not, what's the point?


Hey, I also liked a lot TLT had to offer, but I disliked its opening. It's an obvious flaw. TLT didn't grip me until the midway the second story- while it should have nailed me to my seat in its opening moments (like b5 itself has done time and time again).
 
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I read most of the last post, stopped at the plot comment with "flaws" then something I didn't let myself read. :LOL:

One thing I can see hapenning is that only the most die-hard of fans will buy the DVD in this first sweep. If sales that follow drop of extremely, as word of the actual product spreads, that might effect the overall impression of just how many are going to spend money on more B5 stories.

Unless the initial sales, alone, have been enough to tempt them. :)
 
Well the release date is tomorrow, so not yet :D.

Mind you, I'm not saying TLT won't sell because of a couple of flaws - but the flaws are definitely there.

Still, there is a LOT to enjoy. That opening sequence made me very happy. I especially loved the Londo / Centauri one - that look on Virs face is priceless. Andreas' narration gave me goosebumps. Also, JMS' tribute to Andreas and Richard later on is very heartfelt and touching.

Out of the two stories, the first one isn't so great because of the aforementioned reasons - but it is not without merit. It is well-acted and has a great premise of encountering the supernatural just when you thought science had ruled that out. The second story is definitely the stronger one and feels like classic B5. I loved how Sheridan is all smiles and kindness while all the while he is seriously contemplating going forward with Galens plan. We haven't seen that side of him before. I commend JMS for taking the character to that darker side and pulling it off successfully.
 
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I received an email today saying the estimated arrival date (not shipping date) for TLT is August 1st for me. :D

$16. I get free shipping at Amazon.com now. So total cost: 16 bucks. That's less than a tank of gas. That's like two movies-in-theater. Or one with a friend.

I hadn't really looked at how cost-effect this entertainment would be. If that's the advantage to straight-to-DVD, then I hope this is the trend of the future! :)
 
Well, I bit the evil download apple. My order is not due till September in the UK and I could not wait. Bad me.

(BTW, if you can't wait, try. The download is good quality but it needs to be watched on a TV or at least with a decent streaming system thingy)

Anyhow, I agree with the comments here, but stil really really loved it. I personally loved the the first story, which was nice and dark and felt like something Gaiman would write. I have no problem with a supernatural element in B5, it just may be something that they cannot explain... yet. The 2-3 cast per story really helped as well by keeping things focused. JMS's dialogue was as it is in his TV and comics. I still love it, but acknowledge some of the flaws. The references to G'kar and Franklin were very touching. As this was the first 'new' B5 with the old cast, it really felt like the show again. It was a good good feeling.

The CGI was superb. Not one shot sucked, even the New York stuff. The Star Furies were perfect and as good as any movie with x25 the budget. Hyperspace and Quantum space (a tamed thirdspace??) were great.

If it has sold this well already (#3 on Amazon ? Come on WB...), I'm sure we will get more, with bigger budgets and more actors.

Worth it even for the semi-casual B5 fan.
 
hypatia said:
I received an email today saying the estimated arrival date (not shipping date) for TLT is August 1st for me. :D

$16. I get free shipping at Amazon.com now. So total cost: 16 bucks. That's less than a tank of gas. That's like two movies-in-theater. Or one with a friend.

I hadn't really looked at how cost-effect this entertainment would be. If that's the advantage to straight-to-DVD, then I hope this is the trend of the future! :)
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Your petrol is way to cheap :LOL:

I don't buy stuff on the internet as I can't be bothered setting up a dodgy account I don't trust or have a credit card (even dodgier things) so I'll wait till it's in the shops.

If the shops don't supply me I'll probably find it by other means.

Supply and demand :)
 
Just finished watching. The second one was much better than the 1st. THe only sucky thing.......there's like 8 people in these movies. Hardly any extras walking around or any props on the sets. You can tell they had no money.

By the way - Best Buy includes a B5 comic book in the package. It's of Dr. Franklin and G'kar.
 
I just finished watching it as well and had read many of the reviews beforehand.

I must say, I truly enjoyed the entire story. My only complaint? It leaves me hungry for more!!!

I thought the first story really pulled me in and was creepy in so many ways. Was it full of action? No. Was it the best of B5? Probably not. But I found it was a good story, leagues above "Infection" or any of the worst of B5. I don't seem to dislike it as much as many others have. It may have been "talky" but I was truly interested in what they were saying.

The second story was good as well, but for other reasons. I suspect people like it more because it had Sheridan or more action (or maybe even because of Galen). I'm glad Sheridan took the high road, b/c for whatever reason, I really expected him to shoot the guy down!

All in all, I really hope this DVD sells well and we get many, many more! I particularly want another Londo story and would love more of Kosh. I'm so glad to be able to take a trip back to one of my favorite shows.

Thanks JMS!
 
I finished watching it early this evening. Liked both stories, but more the second.

First Story: One point, the guy in the cell could have been privy to the priest and Lochley's conversation in her office, just like he could hear what they were saying after they'd left his cell. He wasn't hearing what they were saying in the hallway by any standard means; it was supernatural.

Second Story: I never thought Sheridan would shoot Vintari down. I got the feeling that this was more of a subtle manipulation/test of Sheridan by Galen. Maybe the Circle wanted Galen to get Sheridan to kill Vintari, but Galen subtly manipulated Sheridan toward the high road, while looking for all the world like he was doing what the Circle wanted.

The inferences I made about the involvement of the Circle are entirely my own.



Overall, I
 
I agree with your thoughts KoshN about the techno mages and Galen. With them everything is always a little gray.

As for TLT, I just finished watching it a few hours ago and the second story is indeed better than the first. One reason I think is just having more than one character we are familiar with. It was always the character interactions that was one of B5 strong points and in the first story all we know is Lochely and some other people we never met. The story might have been a little weak but I think the ending with Lochely in her quarters and the things she said was a nice touch. Affirmation, that she belongs in the B5 universe.

Bruce did a great job of stepping back into Sheridans shoes. But as mentioned earlier it was to easy, that as soon as Galen told Sheridan of the upcoming tragedy, the young centauri shows his true colors, rather obviuosly. It felt rushed and almost forced to me, as if JMS was pressed to do this all quickly and 72 minutes was not nearly enough. Yes, Babylon 5 did seem very empty and that bothered me as well. It could have had some more action scenes to it but the cgi was very good and the star furies looked cool. One obvious thing I noticed was that in the opening theme as we go form planet to planet, there is no picture of Ivanova but all the other humans are there. Could that have something to do with the fallout between Claudia and JMS ?

Despite my complaints, it is a solid begining to the universe we all love. And though I am slightly dissapointed with this first dvd as we all know, JMS gets better at telling his stories as he explores the B5 universe, with us tagging along.
 
Agree that the empty B5 was disappointing, and that the show seemed to cut corners (like where a Religious Caste Minbari is shown in the B5 brig area, rather than security guards, presumably because they already had Minbari costumes).

Pacing was a problem, both because the episodes were so short, and because JMS indulged in unnecessary side-dialogue (like Lochley and the priest in her quarters) and humorous but irrelevant B stories like the ISN interview. Not enough time was spent facing the fundamental conundrums, and both were solved by a flash of insight that reminded me too much of the sudden realization that "inverting the tachyon streams would reverse the polarity of the transponder dish."

I was pleased with the episodes, on the whole, but think that this was not quite what JMS had planned (originally, IIRC, planned as 3 30-minute episodes, then re-planned as 2 45-minute episodes, then released as 2 36-minute episodes). I rather suspect that the CGI budget was what drove the allowable length of the episodes, and hope that JMS has learned enough to get a proper budget next time.
 
grumbler said:
Agree that the empty B5 was disappointing, and that the show seemed to cut corners (like where a Religious Caste Minbari is shown in the B5 brig area, rather than security guards, presumably because they already had Minbari costumes).
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Still, that emptiness, especially in the brig area seemed to serve the first episode. Who'd want to hang around that area when things were acting weird there, the unnatural step changes in temperature (the cold), and the smell? Would you be hanging out down there, especially in those conditions?



grumbler said:
Pacing was a problem, both because the episodes were so short,
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Yes, the episode length was definitely a problem.



grumbler said:
...and because JMS indulged in unnecessary side-dialogue (like Lochley and the priest in her quarters)
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That provided background, but maybe it could have been trimmed. Have to watch it again.



grumbler said:
and humorous but irrelevant B stories like the ISN interview.
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That was unnecessary, but I liked it.



grumbler said:
Not enough time was spent facing the fundamental conundrums, and both were solved by a flash of insight that reminded me too much of the sudden realization that "inverting the tachyon streams would reverse the polarity of the transponder dish."
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Not quite. The clues were there.



grumbler said:
I was pleased with the episodes, on the whole, but think that this was not quite what JMS had planned (originally, IIRC, planned as 3 30-minute episodes, then re-planned as 2 45-minute episodes, then released as 2 36-minute episodes). I rather suspect that the CGI budget was what drove the allowable length of the episodes, and hope that JMS has learned enough to get a proper budget next time.
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Yes, and with rebuilt sets, wardrobe, more series regulars, extras and props.
 
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