B5LR: Disappointment

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Qoutes: "Yes there was some clunky lines."
"(And no repeating the "live for the one"
motto didn't bother me in the least. "Semper Fi" anyone?
"Bitter comments"
"Trashy invective masquerading as "true fan" criticism"
"snarky little comments"
Disappointed"

Formerly Qouted by: Technomage Roanna
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Hello again,
Obviously the 'clunky lines' comment doesn't imply to me. But where were you going with that 'live for the one' thing though? As for your use of the very honorable Semper Fi words. Are you trying to say your a Marine, or are you pointing fingers? Yes I am a former US Marine and a Gulf War vet, with numerious medals and ribbons, why?

As for 'bitter comments, trashy invective (infective?)masquerading as "true fan" thing', I hope that wasn't misdirected at me, because you've got the wrong man. Perhaps your focus needs to be pointed some where else?

As for my fan status you'll never find a bigger one. When B-5 was struggling during seasons 3 & 4 at seasons end, would you find me sitting on my butt whinning about it? Heck no,I was out passing out promo fliers (I made by hand myself).... I passed them out everywhere I could. I was in supermalls, shopping centers,video arcades, movie theaters,etc....

These weren't just leflets, they were thick...........And packed with extra facts, character bios, demographics, cool bonus materials and a chance to win the B-5 contest. I wasn't getting any money for doing that. I didn't want credit, I still don't, who cares about that. I did it because it was a show I believed in and for the first time in my life I was really excited about something. I wanted others to believe in it too and to feel the same rush I did.

It was fans like me,(Not trying to toot my own horn here or nothing) and so many others out there who are faithful to JMS's vision, that keeped that show afloat. So don't you ever doubt my dedication to B-5.

"It is by deeds that a lad distinguishes himself. If his conduct is pure and right."
A wise man named King Solomon once said.

As for 'snarky little comments',..........
First off, there is nothing wrong with a little healthy constructive criticism....
"A man who loves wisedom makes his father glad."
"Like an earring of gold and an ornament of fine gold. Is a word spoken in right circumstances."
"It is not good for a man to be without knowledge." That same wise man once said.

You see criticism can inhance a already fine product,Solomon new that. In healthy moderation of coarse.

When criticism becomes a bad thing is when some one rips apart someone or something else with out cause, or probagation. Slamming for the sake of slamming that is wrong.
"What's desirable in a man is kindness."
"Do not let kindness and truth leave you." Qouted again by a very very wise man, known as none other then King Solomon himself.

Any how, I do like your comment about the gunnery pod approach. The sweet potatoes comment and what a movie pilot should have in it. Well met.

Hey Roanna, I hope we can get off on a better foot here. I would like it if we would stop bickering with each other and as you said, start writing letters to save the show.

As posted by yet another faithful B-5 fan...... Here I'll repost it, incase no one knows were to look for the address that was posted:

Ms Bonnie Hammer
President
The Sci-Fi Channel
1230 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10020-1513

Send your request to save the show and any raves you may have to this address. Please raves only people.........

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"You have always been here." Kosh (Speaking to Sheridan, from: All Alone In The Night)

"Love to stay, can't, have to go, kiss kiss, love love, bye." G'kar (B-5 LR)

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ro I would just like to say for starters, your comments on your responses to me I agree with 110%.... You handled yourself quite well. With both grace, discernment and wisedom. I respect that...........

It is obvious I misconstrued you on several levels. But hey, that is what communication is all about, right? I was unsure on several things. Sorry for that...... Forgive and forget. I am just very passionate about the world of B-5.
Now we both know we have a common ground to build on as you said.
Now we can stand side by side in the fight, to defend our beloved JMS world.

My hat is off to you sir.

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"You have always been here." Kosh(Speaking to Sheridan, from: All Alone In The Night)

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Faith Manages...

 

[Technomage Roanna]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by for the one:
Ro I would just like to say for starters, your comments on your responses to me I agree with 110%.... You handled yourself quite well. With both grace, discernment and wisedom. I respect that...........
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you kindly. I both respect and share your passion. Well met indeed, and I've got your back

Let's go get 'em.

Ro


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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I liked the whole thing, though I could see were the movie needed maybe improvements. All the battles were pretty good. And the characters were great, esspecially Turk

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[Technomage Roanna]

Let me start by saying, for the one, that you're taking personally comments that were general. Additional comments placed within your quoted post.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by for the one:
Quotes: "Yes there was some clunky lines."
"(And no repeating the "live for the one"
motto didn't bother me in the least. "Semper Fi" anyone?
"Bitter comments"
"Trashy invective masquerading as "true fan" criticism"
"snarky little comments"
Disappointed"

Formerly Quoted by: Technomage Roanna
-------------
Hello again,
Obviously the 'clunky lines' comment doesn't imply to me. But where were you going with that 'live for the one' thing though? As for your use of the very honorable Semper Fi words. Are you trying to say your a Marine, or are you pointing fingers? Yes I am a former US Marine and a Gulf War vet, with numerious medals and ribbons, why?

The "Live for the one" line was mentioned by several posters as being repeated too often. It even inspired a drinking game, as I recall. I expected, based on those comments to be jarred out of the story by hearing the line every 3 minutes or so. I didn't.

"Semper Fi" was a parallel example, not a derogatory one. As a motto, it says a great deal about being a Marine in two words. As does the Rangers motto, in a few more words.

I've no idea of your background, so it certainly wasn't pointed at you. People I love greatly are also veterans of the Gulf War and the Marines.

As for 'bitter comments, trashy invective (infective?)masquerading as "true fan" thing', I hope that wasn't misdirected at me, because you've got the wrong man. Perhaps your focus needs to be pointed some where else?

I'm not sure where you got the idea it was pointed at you at all. There are multiple threads in this board with comments qualifying as bitter, snarky, and true fan garbage. If the shoe fits, wear it, if not, try another pair.

(snip)
These weren't just leflets, they were thick...........And packed with extra facts, character bios, demographics, cool bonus materials and a chance to win the B-5 contest. I wasn't getting any money for doing that. I didn't want credit, I still don't, who cares about that.

So why are you mentioning it here?

My problem is with people who declare themselves "true fans" who then go on to trash the most recent works of any artist as if people who liked them were somehow not "true fans".

Again, check your shoe size before you assume I'm talking to you.


I did it because it was a show I believed in and for the first time in my life I was really excited about something. I wanted others to believe in it too and to feel the same rush I did.

It was fans like me,(Not trying to toot my own horn here or nothing) and so many others out there who are faithful to JMS's vision, that keeped that show afloat. So don't you ever doubt my dedication to B-5.

Didn't. Don't need to. And not interested in comparing levels of dedication.

So unknot your shorts, would you?

Any how, I do like your comment about the gunnery pod approach. The sweet potatoes comment and what a movie pilot should have in it. Well met.

Glad we have some common ground to build on.

Hey Roanna, I hope we can get off on a better foot here. I would like it if we would stop bickering with each other and as you said, start writing letters to save the show.

I agree. Particularly as I wasn't bickering with you or anyone else.

Posting my disagreement in sharp relief and pointed commentary I will acknowledge, but again, it was in response to several threads, and multiple posters. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ro

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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper

 

[Technomage Roanna]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RW7427:

there were plot holes and etc., as all pilot movies have. JMS probably left it that way so that he could fill those holes when it got to series.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with your brilliant assessment...

Not that JMS has done anything similar in previous works...

I just realized I hadn't thanked you for the compliment yet, RW.

Ooopsie.

So, thank you for the compliment.

Ro

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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I was also disappointed

my review
http://www.b5lr.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000773.html

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[Cleron]

the shadows and vorlons were simply playing a game, the 3rd space guys were anti life


Hand of God ? maybe jms is telling you some thing hear..... now if your thinking pure evil... why not destroy the universe and then create one in your own image ? lol seams way out but then we never did find out the true power of the first ones.... remember the shadows n vorlons were rather young compared to the others.


then there's subversion.... not much worse than converting your enemy into your paws or instruments to fight your battles.


arhh im gona love the hand Its about time we had a pure evil enemy buwhahahahaha

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G'kar " No dictator no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms .forever.. there is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom...against that power governments and tyrants and armies Cannot stand... The Centauri learned this lession once ... We will teach it to them again... though it take a thousand years... We will be Free!"

 

[newscaper]

"Pure evil" sounds exactly like something JMS would NOT do over the long term, too simplistic and ultimately boring.

Remember the Vorlon/Shadow dichotomy started to look like good/evil then turned into stifling order vs. "creative" destruction -- with MUCH more depth.

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newscaper,
from the SciFi Channel Farscape BB

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by Cleron:
the shadows and vorlons were simply playing a game, the 3rd space guys were anti life

Hand of God ? If your thinking pure evil... why not destroy the universe and then create one in your own image ? Remember the shadows n vorlons were rather young compared to the others.

Arhh I'm gona love the hand It's about time we had a pure evil enemy buwhahahahaha

------------
Hmmmmmmmmm.... A very cool notion indeed.
I like the way you explain things. The idea of a race that is pure evil, like the creatures from third space, ROCKS! This way there won't be any beating around the bush.

By the way Third Space was so cool, it's just ridiculous. I want to see that race again. (Accept with superior shields). Maybe a adaptive forceshielding like the Borg use. But using organic technology, with a great deal of refractive energy pushed away: like Vorlon technology.

Any how, you have FASCINATING notions, well met.

Keep those thought juices flowing.

Response to [Bboard Farscape] Newscaper.

How can you call that boring. The war of good verse evil is as old as time itself. A story is only as fresh as the writers own imagination. That's the great thing about Science Fiction, you can do anything. Just because it's a old concept, doesn't mean there aren't billions of directions to branch it out in.

Look at Third Space: Great movie, well presented, fresh new enemy, fresh look. It was a cool story based on the classic themes. A theme of pure evil vs good. What's wrong with that? Not everything is gray,alot of enemies are clearly black as night. The Third Space enemy was just that, ANTI-LIFE itself! VERY COOL and exciting stuff indeed...........................Nuff said.
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"You have always been here." Kosh (Speaking to Sheridan, from: All Alone In The Night)

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Faith Manages...

[This message has been edited by for the one (edited February 01, 2002).]

 

[newscaper]

About a totally black-and-white good versus evil struggle OR something with more shades of gray and layers of complexity slowly revealed...

Which type of conflict did JMS find interesting enough to explore over ONE HUNDRED episodes...

... and which one was a nice 90minute popcorn movie that was basically an interesting diversion, a one-shot throwaway in the larger B5 universe?

Ask JMS about it -- HE did it, not me.


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newscaper,
from the SciFi Channel Farscape BB

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Resident NoObe checking in. (please be gentle).

What can I say that hasn't already been said? It's astonishing that B5 was created from The Gathering, and, IMO, The LTR movie was far superior, both as a series pilot, and as a B5 movie (River of Souls, anyone?).

Just my $.02.

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Ultimate Lonestar's Battlecry: "Tit's out for Lonestar!"

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Just my 2 cents worth as well. I have not seen LotR yet here in Canada as SPACE channel dropped the ball on carrying it, and I do not have access to Sci-Fi channel. I've heard lots of negatives about this telemovie and it makes me wonder what people truly expect from a TV pilot. 99% of TV today is crap for the dim witted masses, we finally get what all of us 'Crusaders' have been waiting for: a B5 spinoff in answer to our prayers. Lets just thank JMS and the 'powers that be' (Gods of TV Land) that we have some hope of seeing more of this incredible universe. I have been watching my old (taped from TNT) VHS copies of Crusade lately, they were so great and full of promise that it makes me very sad. I know that these stories will never be completed and the unfairness of it all is overwhelming. Especially when viewing (I think it was called 'Ruling from the Tomb'), so many incredible arcs were opened up in that episode. Gideon being stranded in Space and Galen finding him, Galen and his dying girlfriend (powerful stuff), and of course the Apocalypse Box. I really do wish that the PTB in TVland see fit to give this series (B5 LotR or Crusade for that matter)a chance, if only to revisit our lost friends from Crusade eventually. Gideon, Galen, Dureena and Max are always going to haunt us all with the loose threads of their story lines, sort of like Jimmy never reaching 'The Real World' in HR Pufnstuf and Mark never getting out of Lidsville. Or the Marshals never leaving The Land of the Lost because of the beaucratics of TVland and the reality of money, advertising and cancellations. As a child these things (cancellations) were a big mystery and have sort of kept these stories alive for me (like the Krofft shows) in my mind all of my life as I'm sure many of you have experienced as well. But as an adult I'm sick and tired of my 'escapist fare' being taken away by the crappy Neilsen rating system and its outdated methods of deciding what we should be watching. Hopefully Space will eventually pick up LotR and I'll get to see it this year, I'm still just now seeing the final episodes of Farscape (the ultimate escapist fare par excellence) because I bought the DVD's (which by the way are worth every penny, buy them, even 'Jerimiah Crichton' (shudder)). I truly hope that LotR will eventually bring about some sort of continuance to out B5 Crusade, we the fans deserve to have some sort of satisfaction for the emotional investment we have made in these stories. I live for the one and will die for the one.

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"Things change...Long time gone."

 

[integra2112]

Sorry but i thought the premiere was atrocious. Dont blame football for its poor ratings. Me and my brother are both RABID B5 fans. I absolutely loved the series and will purchase it in its entirety when it arrives on DVD. However, this new pilot was terribly cliche and stale. Id rather see no new series if this is indicative of what is to come. Crusade was far superior to this in my opinion. The B5 pilot was far superior to this. I was actually embarrased while watching the pilot. I actually laughed AT the gunnery pod scenes. This felt like a bad starblazers episode.

I see the same attitudes on this board that i saw on boards after SW episode one came out. Die hard fans whom convinced themselves it was better out of fanboy denial.

I was really expecting much much better out of jms.

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[hypatia]

"HR PuffNStuff, who's around when things get rough? HR PuffNSTuff, you can't do a little cause you can't do enough".

Thats from memory, and it was a LONG TIME AGO when I was a kid. But I LOVED HR PuffNStuff. It was a very short lived series, once the parents caught on though! I didn't realize, of course, as a kid, what that song was saying.

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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

 

[hypatia]

Witchy-Poo and Sinclair here should get together and have a broom party.

------------------
"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

 

[Kribu]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by integra2112:
I see the same attitudes on this board that i saw on boards after SW episode one came out. Die hard fans whom convinced themselves it was better out of fanboy denial.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you consider it impossible that some people might have sincerely and actually liked the movie, not out of 'fanboy denial' but because they simply enjoyed it for what it was?

Mind you, I haven't seen it, so I don't know whether I'd like it or not, but I do know I've loved things other people have hated and been less than impressed by things other people like, and yet I don't see any reason to for example blame the Lord of the Rings fans of 'fanboy denial'.

It's perfectly OK to not like the movie but that's no reason to consider other people 'fanboys' blinded by their love of all things JMS. Besides, even most of the generally positive reviews right here on this board have included some critical remarks.

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com | Kribu.net

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kribu:


It's perfectly OK to not like the movie but that's no reason to consider other people 'fanboys' blinded by their love of all things JMS. Besides, even most of the generally positive reviews right here on this board have included some critical remarks.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As JMS said, one of the purposes of a "pilot" is to try stuff and find out what works and what doesn't. I guess he means, to get the audience's reaction, but does this mean that he's going to make changes based on the audience's reaction (e.g. cut stuff that the majority hates)? Maybe he's referring to his own reaction, seeing it many months later, when he's more withdrawn from it, and can be more objective? Maybe it's both?

What do you people think he meant by this?

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[bakana]

Well, with Babylon 5, he made changes based on both His own ideas and on comments from Fans.

That's why he spent several hours each Night online.

In his own mind, he occasionally looked at things and said "I could do This instead of That and the story would get Better."

Occasionally, the Fans would say "That wasn't as good as it could be" and he'd find a Better way to do it.

That's what the whole process is all about: Constant striving to be Better.

And, of course, most of the time, the fans would say "We Loved It!"

For instance, Very Early on, Kosh had a Wife.
She didn't last long enough to make it into the Pilot.
Instead, Kosh got about a Million years or so OLDER and Vorlon reproduction became one of the unexplored Mysteries of Babylon 5.

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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
Well, with Babylon 5, he made changes based on both His own ideas and on comments from Fans.

That's why he spent several hours each Night online.

In his own mind, he occasionally looked at things and said "I could do This instead of That and the story would get Better."

Occasionally, the Fans would say "That wasn't as good as it could be" and he'd find a Better way to do it.

That's what the whole process is all about: Constant striving to be Better.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It just seemed that the rule against posting story ideas (e.g. how he could make the VR Weapons pod better) or sending them to JMS contradicted JMS getting feedback from the fans.

I guess it just means that he's after a general consensus or what fans liked and didn't like, and why, but avoiding specific solutions. Of course, fans could backdoor this by giving detailed reasons about why something didn't work.

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/