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Dollhouse
- Thread starter KoshFan
- Start date
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Re: New Joss Whedon show
Well, given that they do a lot of erasing, that would seem appropriate...
Well, given that they do a lot of erasing, that would seem appropriate...
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: New Joss Whedon show
I wasn't too impressed with last week's episode. I'm not sure what, but there just felt like there was a bit something missing. This week, however, I loved the episode. I loved that the theme of trust was pushed a bit more. We had been getting a bit comfortable with Dr Fred because she seemed to not be too pleased with the Dollhouse, but this episode brought the character back to being more grey with her being the one who presented the big plan the Dollhouse did to try to right the dolls by giving the dolls what they wanted. It also gave us some interesting revelations into the dolls as characters, particularly with November having lost a child.
I wasn't too impressed with last week's episode. I'm not sure what, but there just felt like there was a bit something missing. This week, however, I loved the episode. I loved that the theme of trust was pushed a bit more. We had been getting a bit comfortable with Dr Fred because she seemed to not be too pleased with the Dollhouse, but this episode brought the character back to being more grey with her being the one who presented the big plan the Dollhouse did to try to right the dolls by giving the dolls what they wanted. It also gave us some interesting revelations into the dolls as characters, particularly with November having lost a child.
Cell
Regular
Re: New Joss Whedon show
I was not a fan at all of the last episode, more attempts at moralizing by Whedon where he gets the moral structure completely wrong. He's creating a show where every character is deplorable on some way and not giving me anyone to root for or even care about. Anyone who was trying to argue that the people working at the dollhouse weren't evil and were just in shades of gray can't make that argument anymore after the last episode. I also thought it was too obvious and heavy handed in the way it handled certain things. Like, Echo needs a key to the weapons locker, so we'll make sure to show a female handler bad mouthing her so that when Echo beats up said female handler the audience can cheer an cheer for the violence.
And don't even get me started on the stupidity of the closure idea, that was just moronic on levels my brain doesn't even want to comprehend.
I was not a fan at all of the last episode, more attempts at moralizing by Whedon where he gets the moral structure completely wrong. He's creating a show where every character is deplorable on some way and not giving me anyone to root for or even care about. Anyone who was trying to argue that the people working at the dollhouse weren't evil and were just in shades of gray can't make that argument anymore after the last episode. I also thought it was too obvious and heavy handed in the way it handled certain things. Like, Echo needs a key to the weapons locker, so we'll make sure to show a female handler bad mouthing her so that when Echo beats up said female handler the audience can cheer an cheer for the violence.
And don't even get me started on the stupidity of the closure idea, that was just moronic on levels my brain doesn't even want to comprehend.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: New Joss Whedon show
It is a show that makes one think. For example, where does the actives free-will exist? With them being programmed to do various things, is it a violation of their free-will? Or does the contract each one signed when they first entered the dollhouse cover it since that was an act of submitting to the programming? In some ways, it seems like a metaphor, for lack of a better word, to military service. When you sign up for the military, you agree to follow orders. The only difference being that a military person can refuse to follow an order or refuse to show up for service, both of which usually result in some form of punishment for violation of their contract, whereas the actives are a bit stuck in their service.
It's definitely a morally ambiguous story with no perfect, paragon characters. As it stands, I root for the actives to break free of the dollhouse, so there are definitely characters I care about. The show is an exploration of the struggle against a system that works to repress people's natural selves for the system's corporate benefit.
I found the closure plot twist to be an exploration of the subconscious. What are the things that we want but aren't even able to let our own selves know? How can one learn what those things are and act to fulfill them? And how does having them be unfulfilled impact the rest of our lives?
There are a lot of questions created in this show's story. Those questions aren't easily answered, if answerable at all. And we aren't having those answers given to us; they're left for us to think up on our own. It's a cerebral, ponderous show. As KoshFan says, it makes you think.
It is a show that makes one think. For example, where does the actives free-will exist? With them being programmed to do various things, is it a violation of their free-will? Or does the contract each one signed when they first entered the dollhouse cover it since that was an act of submitting to the programming? In some ways, it seems like a metaphor, for lack of a better word, to military service. When you sign up for the military, you agree to follow orders. The only difference being that a military person can refuse to follow an order or refuse to show up for service, both of which usually result in some form of punishment for violation of their contract, whereas the actives are a bit stuck in their service.
It's definitely a morally ambiguous story with no perfect, paragon characters. As it stands, I root for the actives to break free of the dollhouse, so there are definitely characters I care about. The show is an exploration of the struggle against a system that works to repress people's natural selves for the system's corporate benefit.
I found the closure plot twist to be an exploration of the subconscious. What are the things that we want but aren't even able to let our own selves know? How can one learn what those things are and act to fulfill them? And how does having them be unfulfilled impact the rest of our lives?
There are a lot of questions created in this show's story. Those questions aren't easily answered, if answerable at all. And we aren't having those answers given to us; they're left for us to think up on our own. It's a cerebral, ponderous show. As KoshFan says, it makes you think.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: New Joss Whedon show
I loved tonight's episode; I enjoy the fun conspiracy stuff. I liked the concurrent story lines told in a separated series; that was an interesting format. Some wow stuff in this ep.
DeWitt being a client herself, aka "Miss Lonely Hearts". Makes me wonder what happened to her to make her to hire an active.
November subprogrammed to reveal herself to Paul. Ooo ooo ooo. I've been totally into November ever since it was revealed she was a sleeper active a few weeks back. Even though I had been suspecting she was for a while before that reveal, the way she was revealed was really kickass. And now Paul knows but can't let her know he knows.
And I enjoyed the no.2 guy being the in-house spy. I think I was expecting the spy to be someone I'd like who was trying to bring the house down, but turns out it was the one character I thought was most villainous! I wouldn't be surprise though if there ends up being a second spy in the house.
And Echo's still not done trying to fulfill her subconscious desire from last week, Topher and DeWitt posit. And even though she's got a new handler now, she still recognizes her old one to some degree (now promoted). I love this whole exploration of the subconscious and "self". Despite the dolls having their minds wiped, there's something there that's still them that can't be wiped.
Fun!
I loved tonight's episode; I enjoy the fun conspiracy stuff. I liked the concurrent story lines told in a separated series; that was an interesting format. Some wow stuff in this ep.
DeWitt being a client herself, aka "Miss Lonely Hearts". Makes me wonder what happened to her to make her to hire an active.
November subprogrammed to reveal herself to Paul. Ooo ooo ooo. I've been totally into November ever since it was revealed she was a sleeper active a few weeks back. Even though I had been suspecting she was for a while before that reveal, the way she was revealed was really kickass. And now Paul knows but can't let her know he knows.
And I enjoyed the no.2 guy being the in-house spy. I think I was expecting the spy to be someone I'd like who was trying to bring the house down, but turns out it was the one character I thought was most villainous! I wouldn't be surprise though if there ends up being a second spy in the house.
And Echo's still not done trying to fulfill her subconscious desire from last week, Topher and DeWitt posit. And even though she's got a new handler now, she still recognizes her old one to some degree (now promoted). I love this whole exploration of the subconscious and "self". Despite the dolls having their minds wiped, there's something there that's still them that can't be wiped.
Fun!
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: New Joss Whedon show
Sindatur, regarding what you have in your spoiler tags, not according to Wikipedia.
Wikipedia also lists the identity of a guest star playing the designer of the Dollhouse coming up in the 11th episode:
Sindatur, regarding what you have in your spoiler tags, not according to Wikipedia.
Spoiler for :
Wikipedia also lists the identity of a guest star playing the designer of the Dollhouse coming up in the 11th episode:
Spoiler for :
Last edited:
Sindatur
Regular
Sindatur
Regular
Re: New Joss Whedon show
The way she interacted with Victor and looked at him, I got the feeling she real feelings for him. We didn't get to see his past last week, I wonder if DeWitt is involved in it? If the show lasts long enough, I wonder what might happen if Sierra finds out while in a cognitive state?
I've always felt Dominick had his own agenda, but, I don't think he's the spy we were looking for. The spy we were looking for has been monkeying with Topher's programming, I'm not sure a "physical Security Expert" would be capable of doing that, even if he was provided ready made programs to install.
The way she interacted with Victor and looked at him, I got the feeling she real feelings for him. We didn't get to see his past last week, I wonder if DeWitt is involved in it? If the show lasts long enough, I wonder what might happen if Sierra finds out while in a cognitive state?
I've always felt Dominick had his own agenda, but, I don't think he's the spy we were looking for. The spy we were looking for has been monkeying with Topher's programming, I'm not sure a "physical Security Expert" would be capable of doing that, even if he was provided ready made programs to install.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: New Joss Whedon show
I'm sad if we won't ever get any sub-programmed messages sent through dolls again; both when Echo did it and now with November having done it: I just find it fun. I enjoy that kind of conspiracy type stuff in stories.
I'm sad if we won't ever get any sub-programmed messages sent through dolls again; both when Echo did it and now with November having done it: I just find it fun. I enjoy that kind of conspiracy type stuff in stories.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Re: New Joss Whedon show
Oddly, #2 said he was there to protect the Dollhouse, not hurt it. And, he offered evidence of such.
Obviously there is another spy in the Dollhouse, maybe more. I still believe someone/some organization planted Echo there to spy, and then there is whoever subprogrammed Echo and November. (That subprogrammer is obviously working for the higher-up who had the FBI investigation going.) These might be the same entity, or two different entities, and the second entity just happened to use a subprogrammed Echo, even though she is a plant for a different entity.
Oddly, #2 said he was there to protect the Dollhouse, not hurt it. And, he offered evidence of such.
Obviously there is another spy in the Dollhouse, maybe more. I still believe someone/some organization planted Echo there to spy, and then there is whoever subprogrammed Echo and November. (That subprogrammer is obviously working for the higher-up who had the FBI investigation going.) These might be the same entity, or two different entities, and the second entity just happened to use a subprogrammed Echo, even though she is a plant for a different entity.
KoshFan
Regular
Re: New Joss Whedon show
Dominic has gone back and forth for me... which is why he was very interesting to watch. I'm convinced he and DeWitt really felt something for each other (hence his immediately altering course to see her early on, hence her tears after she orders him stuffed into the Attic). He's been trying to kill Echo to remove a threat... because she's a threat to the stability of the Dollhouse... which is in turn a threat because of what might happen if it gets out.. He's a putative "good guy" working for the government, but that's problematic because the government agency in question wanted the imprinting technology for itself... so many layers. And then just as we think he's no good at all, he's the one who gives Echo the emotional boost in the van, telling her she'll be the one to bring the Dollhouse down. Very twisty indeed.
And speaking of Echo, my jaw literally dropped when she volunteered for an imprint.
Apparently the closed captioning has that line as, "if our spy gets caught," or something like that.
Getting extremely interesting.
Dominic has gone back and forth for me... which is why he was very interesting to watch. I'm convinced he and DeWitt really felt something for each other (hence his immediately altering course to see her early on, hence her tears after she orders him stuffed into the Attic). He's been trying to kill Echo to remove a threat... because she's a threat to the stability of the Dollhouse... which is in turn a threat because of what might happen if it gets out.. He's a putative "good guy" working for the government, but that's problematic because the government agency in question wanted the imprinting technology for itself... so many layers. And then just as we think he's no good at all, he's the one who gives Echo the emotional boost in the van, telling her she'll be the one to bring the Dollhouse down. Very twisty indeed.
And speaking of Echo, my jaw literally dropped when she volunteered for an imprint.
Apparently the closed captioning has that line as, "if our spy gets caught," or something like that.
Getting extremely interesting.
Sindatur
Regular
Re: New Joss Whedon show
Oh, cool, not as definitive, because it doesn't make sense Dominick could have the skills to do the sub-Program Imprints.
Oh, cool, not as definitive, because it doesn't make sense Dominick could have the skills to do the sub-Program Imprints.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: New Joss Whedon show
I had an interesting thought last night; what if Dominic was a double-mole. It could be interesting if his ultimate employer wasn't the NSA but someone who had him be a mole within the NSA. Then the NSA turned around and had him be a mole for them within the Dollhouse.
If he truly was the one and only sending messages to Paul through Echo and November to help Paul discover more about the Dollhouse, then it seems a bit weird for his goal to be to keep the Dollhouse from getting out of control. I hope there's a bit more to this that hasn't been revealed yet because it just doesn't quite match up as is.
I had an interesting thought last night; what if Dominic was a double-mole. It could be interesting if his ultimate employer wasn't the NSA but someone who had him be a mole within the NSA. Then the NSA turned around and had him be a mole for them within the Dollhouse.
If he truly was the one and only sending messages to Paul through Echo and November to help Paul discover more about the Dollhouse, then it seems a bit weird for his goal to be to keep the Dollhouse from getting out of control. I hope there's a bit more to this that hasn't been revealed yet because it just doesn't quite match up as is.
