Dollhouse

[KoshFan]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

I just wonder how much of this is the microscope effect. Since Joss has an extremely vigilant, communicative, and net-savvy fan base, including a lot of the entertainment media, news about his shows gets a lot of attention. So all the missteps and flaws that are ordinarily smoothed out behind the scenes (literally!) are now, instead, smeared all over the internet. We're practically sitting in the editing room; instead of the neat, smooth, brilliant finished product we're accustomed to seeing from Joss, we're instead walking in on the mess of said production. Which is why I keep emphasizing that we should wait and see what happens, rather than rushing to judgment. Cell, you may be right, maybe this thing is doomed... but there's no way the network is going to cancel the show before it even airs, so let's wait until it does. Then we can make a better call.

"Angel" shut down production after its first episode, because the second one as scheduled was going to be extremey dark and the network couldn't stomach it. So Joss & Co. rewrote the whole thing. Angel lasted five seasons and included some of Joss's best work.

On the other hand, Fox demanded a rewrite of "Firefly" and did axe it. So we have precedents both ways. Even the Fox Network people have no idea how well this show is going to do, come January, so again, let's wait.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

Oh, and Eliza Dushku -- who's in a somewhat better position than any of us to know what's going on -- says that Fox loves the show. Of course, Eliza's also an eternal optimist, so make of that what you will, Cell.

 

[Chilli]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

Been a while, but ..

The show will start airing on 13 Feb.

First reports not making me too optimistic.

This episode was originally intended to be the series pilot, but after test audiences found it too confusing and dark Joss Whedon decided to shoot a new pilot, Ghost, to better introduce the story and characters to the viewing audience. It was originally reported that this episode was going to be aired second, after the new pilot, but when it proved impossible to salvage (even with reshoots) Joss decided to shelve the episode completely.

Still will probably give the show a try though, also if neither the cast nor the concept seem intriguing.
​

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

I like "dark and confusing."

 

[Recoil]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

Been a while, but ..

The show will start airing on 13 Feb.

First reports not making me too optimistic.

Still will probably give the show a try though, also if neither the cast nor the concept seem intriguing.
​

I haven't busted this one out since grade school, but Chilli, that news is so old its moldy. That's been covered to death and things are believed to have worked out for the best from what I've heard.

 

[Chilli]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

I haven't busted this one out since grade school, but Chilli, that news is so old its moldy. That's been covered to death and things are believed to have worked out for the best from what I've heard.

Ah.

Well, that's what I get for getting all my news from Wikipedia.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

A recurring mantra over at Whedonesque these days is, "Let's wait to actually see the show before we condemn it."

 

[vacantlook]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

I almost forgot about this show, but I watched it tonight. I liked it, but I will have to give it more episodes before I can decide if I like it enough to watch it regularly. It did jump right into it, so it played more like a regular episode than a pilot or introductory episode.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

The general consensus is that the second one is supposed to be better -- and that the real good stuff comes in five or six, when they -- to quote Joss -- "start blowing stuff up."

 

[Cell]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

I thought the premier was decent, and I can see the groundwork for what could be done, who knows if they will ever take that route though. But, my biggest gripe would be the muay Thai scene, that was the most unrealistic fight scene masquerading as a legitimate sporting fight that has ever been put to any screen. I love Joss, but he needs to never do a scene like that again, it was embarrassing. Still, that scene aside, I liked what I saw and I look forward to the show, provided it can last.

 

[G'Kar]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

Not bad, but I hope it picks up and I'm sure it will.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

There were definitely a lot of bits -- especially early on -- that screamed, "The network insisted we put this in."

I enjoyed it, and it was a bit intense towards the end, but I wasn't blown away. I do recall, however, that Joss never starts very strong. The good stuff always comes later.

 

[vacantlook]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

I enjoyed it, and it was a bit intense towards the end, but I wasn't blown away. I do recall, however, that Joss never starts very strong. The good stuff always comes later.

I don't know; I thought Firefly started strong. The actual two-episode pilot, that is, not what the Fox network broadcast first. This first episode of Dollhouse had a bit of The Train Job-ishness to it. It wasn't a bad episode, and it did introduce things, but it didn't introduce them as strongly as I would expect from a first episode.

 

[Recoil]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

I don't know; I thought Firefly started strong. The actual two-episode pilot, that is, not what the Fox network broadcast first. This first episode of Dollhouse had a bit of The Train Job-ishness to it. It wasn't a bad episode, and it did introduce things, but it didn't introduce them as strongly as I would expect from a first episode.

Ironically, I agree with Fox wanting Train Job as its pilot instead of the 2 hour premier. Sure the 2 hour one sets up the story and characters better...but upon rewatching it all the times that I have...its kinda dull. I find myself liking Train Job a lot more (one of my fav episodes of the series) and since they end up covering the stuff that was in the 2 hour pilot in the next couple episodes, its not that big of a deal. But I do get why Fox wanted what they wanted with Train Job --- better chance of grabbing new viewers.

I also seem to remember Joss stated the re-write for the pilot of Dollhouse was for the best as well. Perhaps someday we might see what he had planned and realize we got the better of the two.

(Dont get me wrong, I do like the 2 hour pilot of Firefly, but if I were to want to get a friend into the show who knows nothing of Whedon and isn't a huge sci-fi fan...id show them Train Job as the lead in and not the 2 hour pilot. Nuff said)

 

[KoshFan]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

Well, regardless, to my mind he always hits his stride a little way in. This is why Firefly would have been amazing if it had lived: we saw the bad stuff, the trial runs. It would have gotten better still.

Angel arguably peaked in its second season; Buffy certainly hit the big time in its second run. We shall see what transpires.

 

[Mike G]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

I enjoyed it, and will definitly be tuning in next week. I have a feeling that the show will not make it past 13 episodes though. Most of the reviews I saw were negative, and thought it was too confusing.
Now, I have to admit that I knew the premise ahead of time, but I did not find it confusing at all. Did any of you?

 

[Sindatur]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

I liked it, Mission Impossible with the Programming twist.

I hope it gets better, but, I thought it was a good start. Being Fox, yeah, it's days may very well be numbered

 

[vacantlook]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

...Most of the reviews I saw were negative, and thought it was too confusing.
...I did not find it confusing at all. Did any of you?

I did not find it confusing at all. I like not understanding everything going into a show and being surprised. I enjoy a well executed "twist". And Echo's programmed personality knowing the one man involved in the kidnapping was very interesting. It made me wonder the specifics about how the Dollhouse acquires its personality elements to build their "dolls" with. The people within the organization realized that the one element used to build Echo's personality came from a person who had been abducted by the dude once before. That, more than anything that "Helo" (aka the dude from BSG) did, made me interested in how the organization worked.

I wasn't confused at all; if anything, I would have liked more than I didn't understand.

If the people writing reviews found the episode confusing, I can't help but be a bit judgmental and think that they are all far more stupid that I am.

I think some people who watch shows are just personally deficient and unwilling to accept that they don't know everything in the universe capable of being known.

 

[Mike G]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

If the people writing reviews found the episode confusing, I can't help but be a bit judgmental and think that they are all far more stupid that I am.

I think some people who watch shows are just personally deficient and unwilling to accept that they don't know everything in the universe capable of being known.

I don't know if I would go that far. On the one hand, I think they did a fairly good job of explaining how the Active technology works.
One the other hand, I am a life long sci-fi fan, and if someone says to me "People with implanted personalities, false memoires, and memory erasing technology." I know what they are talking about. People who have not had as much experience with sci-fi might not. Most people have not read/watched other stories with similar technology and plot devices, and might need some more time to processes the ideas.

 

[channe]

Re: New Joss Whedon show

This started off on completely the wrong note for me; for some odd reason, it didn't even feel like a Joss Whedon show. Which, I suppose, is necessary if you're gonna shake the "Buffy" and "Firefly" curse and really have a mainstream hit...

But, anyway, there were some wrong notes in the premiere, but nothing that would really keep me from watching. I'm in.