Episode III photos *spoilers*

[LondosHair]

Cause if its one thing kids love, it's politics, trade federations, government and the such.

Star Wars has never been about politics or governments; it's about the good guys vs. the bad guys. The politics in the latest trilogy aren't (and shouldn't be) a major point of the story. The basic theme to understand is this:

We're seeing the beginnings of the Empire. Mysterious figures are working behind the scenes to bring about the war. It's up to the Jedi to figure it out. We get to see how the characters became the ones we know and love from 20-25 years ago. We're bound to meet plenty of new characters along the way, so that kids today can remember them in another 30 years while the rest of us yell at their kids to get off our lawn.

Lucas said from the beginning that he only started with episode 4 because he felt the final episodes had the best chances to be adapted for the big screen. It shouldn't come as any wonder that episodes 1-3 are a little less riveting overall, as they are the building action while 4-6 are the climax & falling action of the entire story.

Frankly, I'm just glad he IS doing the first three, like we'd always dreamt about on the playground...

 

[colonyearth]

Actually, while the first trilogy was made in such a way that kids could enjoy them...they weren't made specially for kids. Lucas was trying to tell the SF serial, classic good vs. evil tale. There just happened to be nothing that wasn't kid friendly. It wasn't until the Ewoks in Jedi that kiddie elements began to filter in...and those were GL's idea.

As for the TPM...Lucas set out to make it more kiddie...and has now learned he made a big mistake...which has tied his hands somewhat with EpIII in how graphic he can get with Anakin's fall.

The original trilogy, while kids could and did enjoy them, didn't talk down to kids and appeal only to kids...unlike the new trilogy tried to do. I can watch them now and still be excited by them...while the new ones bore me to tears and make me laugh where I shouldn't.

However you put it...the original three were better made, better written by a long shot, better acted, better directed for the most part, and overall more interested in character and story than how many CG FX we can cram into one film. While I will gladly acknowledge what GL has done for the industry technically, he was never a great director nor writer. He should allow the people who have talent in these areas to write and direct and stay behind the scenes where he belongs.

And as for story credit...it usually means that he wrote out a treatment or outline upon which the script was framed. It was also his idea and characters...so therefore...his story.

While I will go see EPIII, I have little expectation that it will be anything more than I and II...eye candy, with no character developement..little plot..and no emotion. Personally, I couldn't give a shit whether Anakin falls or not...I hate him as a character so have no care for what happens to him...and unfortunately, it's now ruined Jedi for me, since I no longer care whether or not he's redeemed...there's nothing worth redeeming there.

Sad.

CE

 

[PsionTen]

The politics in the latest trilogy aren't (and shouldn't be) a major point of the story. The basic theme to understand is this:

We're seeing the beginnings of the Empire. Mysterious figures are working behind the scenes to bring about the war. It's up to the Jedi to figure it out. We get to see how the characters became the ones we know and love from 20-25 years ago. We're bound to meet plenty of new characters along the way, so that kids today can remember them in another 30 years while the rest of us yell at their kids to get off our lawn.

Maybe it's just me, but this new trilogy seems to be primarily about the Fall of the Republic/Fall of the Jedi(and all the politics, government and in-fighting that goes with it), and secondly its about Anakin Skywalker/good v. bad and so on. Maybe the reason why people didn't like PM and AotC is because they didn't want to sit through long periods that look like intergalactic renditions of C-Span. On the one hand, he's boring you to death with a civics lesson and on the other hand he's torturing you with stuff that only a 5-year-old would like.

It shouldn't come as any wonder that episodes 1-3 are a little less riveting overall, as they are the building action while 4-6 are the climax & falling action of the entire story.

Well if stories 1-3 are "less riveting," then why make them in the first place? Unless you're just out to make money, that is.

Frankly, I'm just glad he IS doing the first three, like we'd always dreamt about on the playground...

I don't think we were dreaming of prequels when we were kids, were we? I thought it was sequels that we wanted to see.

 

[channe]

I wanted to see what Luke did after the "he's my brother" line, and I didn't mean "in novels."

 

[colonyearth]

Besides...those mysterious "other films" Lucas spoke of were not specifically the films he's recently released. There was no pre-planned arc...just a very vague concept of an idea sitting somewhere in the nether regions of Lucas' brain. What he's created now is oft-times in stark contrast to the original films...contradicting wonderful ideas layed down back then. Instead of writing these films to match what was already established...he re-wrote whatever he wished...and now will go back and alter the original three even more to make them fit what he says now, thus destroying what was still good and making it lame like the current films. Besides, isn't that putting the cart before the horse's ass?

I think he and Berman should work together...they could destroy entire universes with a single bad idea.

CE

 

[Sinclair]

Ok -- isn't Luke supposed to be somewhere between 17 and 25? How does Obi-Wan go from his mid-thirties to his mid-seventies in only twenty-odd years?

Obi-Wan wasn't in his mid-seventies in the original trilogy. I believe the character was supposed to be around sixty maybe a little older. Guinness himself was sixty-three when the first movie came out. I'm not 100% sure on this but I think the span between trilogies is somewhere between 25-30 years. I remember reading something about this a few years ago but can't for the life of me remember where I read it.

 

[colonyearth]

According to Lucas and the official timeline (which you can find in any of the official novels) there is only 22 yrs between EPIII and ANH...one more element of discontinuity from Lucas. I don't buy such a short period of time...but then who knows why Obi Wan looks so old...maybe he stressed a lot.
CE

 

[Quagmire]

The whole "we only liked the first ones because we were kids" thing is a giant pile and I'm the proof. I was too young to see the Star Wars movies when I was a kid and by the time I was an adolescent enough time had passed that they weren't nearly as big. It wasn't until I was in the low doubble digit that the Star Wars subject came up in a conversation and others expressed disbelief that I hadn't seen them. A couple of rentals later and a teenager, not a little kid had new movies he loved. And I assure you I was not a stoner simply into kiddie entertainment. Part of the reason I don't hate the Ewoks as much as others is probably still is that there wasn't as much build up(they do annoy me though).

Jar Jar is bad no matter the age of the viewer. The new movies are actually good DVD movies, simply skip Jar Jar/awful love scenes.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Lucas' best scifi film, which he wrote and directed himself, is THX 1138. American Graffiti is also quite good. I like the old serials, Like Flash Gordon, and Radar Men From The Moon. Compared to those, all of the SWs are pretty good, and that's what GL said he was aiming for, so, I have to call him successful. Could they have been better? Of course, if Kasdan had done them all, or, JMS... ... we might have had a truly amazing, multilayered, space saga. But, GL gets tremendous credit for opening up the market to big budget scifi, and kick-starting us into the era of modern special effects.

And Psion Ten, things like you mention, helping your friend, are often credited as "story idea," somewhat less than a "Story" credit.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Another proof that the "30-somethings can't criticize the new movies because they weren't made for us but our kids" argument is a pile of horse hockey was perfectly demonstrated by none other than ... my kids.

I love the OT. I was 8 when SW first hit the screens, and watched all three more than once at the theatre and have the original cuts on (almost worn out) VHS. My two kids (now 9 and 7) also love those films (hence the state of my tapes).

I was hugely disapponted with just how dull TPM and AoTC were, but the kids desperately wanted to see them as they loved the other three.

End result, much book reading, chattering and wandering around during TPM and (even more impressive) both fast asleep towards the end of AoTC even though it was much earlier in the evening than they normally hit slumberland.

Pretty conclusive result as far as I am concerned.

 

[darth_librarian]

Fas, thanks for the scan's, I've missed those.
I was excited about EP3, then I thought 'feh'. Now that picture of all the Wookies gets my blood flowing (weird huh)
I've just rewatched the OT, before putting my VHS to bed on a shelf now the DVD's are nearly with us. The big factor is pace, the OT moves at a breakneck speed, the PT films in comparision are so slow, with loads of exposition. AOTC really suffers from this mid-way.

As for the idea of GL doing Indy 4 script, no..........
However, he could draft a good story...

 

[A_Ranger]

Actually, movies such as Spider Man, X-Men, Shrek, Hulk, Day before Yesterday, Lord of the Ring and on and on have to thanks GL for his vision on working and developing special effects. He is direct responsible of developing the special effect industry.


But, come on you guys, GL, in my opinion is THE BEST in the Hollywood tech industry.

Actually, it was "The Last Starfighter" that is directly responsible for starting the CG effects movies. Lucas only helped pursue it afterward. He didn't have the balls to be the first make a full CG movie himself.

And I have to disagree that he's the best. WETA has surpasssed ILM. I look at Episode 2 and I yawn on go, "oooh look, and all CG battle. How exciting." But when I watch LOTR, I believe what's going on.

Lucas has gone insane on the SFX anyway. He's making EVERYTHING CG, which is just rediculous. Almost every set in Episode 2 wasn't real. You should only do something CG if you have to. And sets should be as real as they can be.

 

[rangerPHIL]

I am not really bothered.

GL may however surprise us all and have made a pretty decent movie.

( only downside is jarjar does not die! )

I maintain one of my earlier points though - when I said JMS would be a good choice for the rumoured SW series.

 

[Fas]

I maintain one of my earlier points though - when I said JMS would be a good choice for the rumoured SW series.

Yeah- but why would GL know about JMS, or seen his work? b5 isn't that popular.

 

[colonyearth]

I maintain one of my earlier points though - when I said JMS would be a good choice for the rumoured SW series.

Yeah- but why would GL know about JMS, or seen his work? b5 isn't that popular.

Umm...B5 was popular...and critically acclaimed. JMS has been called one of the top most influential writers in Hollywood today. Oh, and B5 forever changed American TV in many ways and on many levels. That's kinda why it is legitimately called a "groundbreaking series."

You people who think B5 was some little show with a handful of fans just amaze me. Geesh!

CE

 

[Sinclair]

You people who think B5 was some little show with a handful of fans just amaze me. Geesh!

CE

I honestly thought the same thing when I first started watching it. As far as people I knew went, only one of them had ever heard of or seen it. It wasn't until recently how big I realized B5 was, what with the explosive sales of the DVD's and the fact that there's a motion picture on the way.

It's a fantastic show, but I was unaware of how many people had watched and realized the same thing. I'm still amazed that most of my friends haven't seen it, and only heard of it because of me.

But, back on the topic; I still can't wait to see Ep III. I know it won't live up the hype. I enjoyed AOTC and I can't really complain about the crappy love story. I wouldn't be able to do any better. It's Lucas' universe, let him do what he wants. I'm just hoping I like it even better than Ep II.

 

[GeoKuutio]

I think that one and only good thing that was given to us by PT, was Darth Maul. Man, that character kicked ass, he could have been the "BIG EVIL!" before Vader came into the story, but no, he had to be killed in a very lame way. The whole lovestory... ah c'mon.. it's a piece of crap.

And what comes to that "inner child" thing, hey, my little brother who is 11 now said to me after TPM that it was plain shit (yep, he used word "shit"). It was dull, not interesting and boring. In Attack of the CGI, he said that it was boring, big climax at the end of the movie was like a dull videogame. PT's are... plain shit.

 

[Recoil]

I agree Sinclair. B5 is still in the minority in a big way. Its fan base has gotten a LOT bigger in the last 5 years for certain, but it is still relatively unknown. I have a lot of friends who have never even heard of it let alone seen it. And from what I read on this board, there are lots of other posters here who have similar arrangements.

As for JMS being one of the "most influencial" writers in Hollywood...not sure I agree with that assessment. No where have I read something to this effect. Granted *WE* think he can walk on water, and he did put out a ground-breaking series, but his record SINCE B5 has been...spotty to say the least.

1) A series that was killed after 13 episodes
2) A telemovie that was sub-par and a flub in many people's opinions (including B5 fans)
3) Another series on Showtime that made it only 1.5 seasons (he left this time, but still, it ended there)

No one in Hollywood really gives a shit if he puts out good comic book series. That is a JMS fan or comic fan base thing.

I have no doubt that he is "critically acclaimed" for some of his works --- especially B5. But saying he is one of the most influencial writers in Hollywood may be saying a lot more than is...well true.

He is NOT one of those writers who can write his own ticket in Hollywood.

 

[colonyearth]

I agree Sinclair. B5 is still in the minority in a big way. Its fan base has gotten a LOT bigger in the last 5 years for certain, but it is still relatively unknown. I have a lot of friends who have never even heard of it let alone seen it. And from what I read on this board, there are lots of other posters here who have similar arrangements.

As for JMS being one of the "most influencial" writers in Hollywood...not sure I agree with that assessment. No where have I read something to this effect. Granted *WE* think he can walk on water, and he did put out a ground-breaking series, but his record SINCE B5 has been...spotty to say the least.

1) A series that was killed after 13 episodes
2) A telemovie that was sub-par and a flub in many people's opinions (including B5 fans)
3) Another series on Showtime that made it only 1.5 seasons (he left this time, but still, it ended there)

No one in Hollywood really gives a shit if he puts out good comic book series. That is a JMS fan or comic fan base thing.

I have no doubt that he is "critically acclaimed" for some of his works --- especially B5. But saying he is one of the most influencial writers in Hollywood may be saying a lot more than is...well true.

He is NOT one of those writers who can write his own ticket in Hollywood.

Um...it was in People magazine. Yes..People. JMS was listed as one of the top 40 most influential writers in Hollywood today. This was about 3 years ago.

CE

 

[Sinclair]

Um...it was in People magazine. Yes..People. JMS was listed as one of the top 40 most influential writers in Hollywood today. This was about 3 years ago.

CE

Shit, I must have missed that issue. Damned Post Office.