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Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)
- Thread starter Alluveal
- Start date
darth_librarian
Regular
Sounds about right. There are a few spoliers floating around, but I am trying to steer clear. Dr Zee and the space scouts. No thanks.
Alluveal
Regular
Alluveal
Regular
Interesting indeed.
I have to gloat. I called it! Kara finding her ship, the beacon, her dead body. What is she exactly? I think there is something going on here with downloading memories either into clones or into humans or such. Perhaps when they went through the nebula, their cylon-ness was downloaded into the new hosts. Not sure. They're definitely not your typical cylons.
Thoughts on final cylon (using spoilers in case someone hasn't seen it yet and is browsing....
I have to gloat. I called it! Kara finding her ship, the beacon, her dead body. What is she exactly? I think there is something going on here with downloading memories either into clones or into humans or such. Perhaps when they went through the nebula, their cylon-ness was downloaded into the new hosts. Not sure. They're definitely not your typical cylons.
Thoughts on final cylon (using spoilers in case someone hasn't seen it yet and is browsing....
Spoiler for :
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Given the revelation of the final five living on Earth, "everything's in place", and the seeming difference between the five and the rest of the cylons, I have a theory about baby Hera (that potentially requires everyone to be a cylon). Where as the other cylons resurrect into identical bodies, perhaps the ones like the final five reincarnate instead. Maybe there is no adult sized body copy that they download into like the other cylons but instead that they're reborn from infant age and grow on up. And maybe Hera is the first one to reincarnate from the dead of the intial cylon assault on the colonies.
And Dee made my jaw drop; I wasn't expecting that when it happened.
And Dee made my jaw drop; I wasn't expecting that when it happened.
GKarsEye
Regular
My impression is that there is a tight analogy between Ellen and Number 6.
From Tigh's flashback, it appeared Ellen new about the nuclear holocaust, the cylon resurrection stuff, etc. What if she caused it, like #6 did in the very first episode? If that's the case, look at the similarities between the two- sexually aggressive blonde women attaching themselves to a clueless "human" man who they end up falling in love with. Will be interesting to see what Tigh's position on Earth was, if it was similar in stature to Baltar's on Caprica.
Finally and most importantly, there is Tigh's attraction to the #6 model on the ship, and the fact that he keeps seeing Ellen's face when he's with her. Also, the repeated mantra of how cyclical the events in this universe are, it stands to reason that the events in the first episode are the repetition of Earth's nuclear holocaust.
From Tigh's flashback, it appeared Ellen new about the nuclear holocaust, the cylon resurrection stuff, etc. What if she caused it, like #6 did in the very first episode? If that's the case, look at the similarities between the two- sexually aggressive blonde women attaching themselves to a clueless "human" man who they end up falling in love with. Will be interesting to see what Tigh's position on Earth was, if it was similar in stature to Baltar's on Caprica.
Finally and most importantly, there is Tigh's attraction to the #6 model on the ship, and the fact that he keeps seeing Ellen's face when he's with her. Also, the repeated mantra of how cyclical the events in this universe are, it stands to reason that the events in the first episode are the repetition of Earth's nuclear holocaust.
Garovorkin
Regular
I was not surprised with what they found , I had my suspicions when they first reached Kobol.There are no real Humans at all, they dies in the very beginning whenever and where ever it began probably many tens of thousands of years ago . What we have is machines replacing machines and repeating the same history over and over again They are stuck in unending program loop. I think its not out of the question that if they find another habitable planet they may find the same thing there, as well. They have been there before , I think that for them there may be no hope. Of course Hera may break the cycle, then again maybe not.
Recoil
Regular
The Dee thing surprised me, but I could see it coming when she was walking down the hall with Lee and saying good night. The line "I want to hold onto this feeling as long as I can" is often a precursor to suicide victims (for lack of a better term). The part that was surprising to me was that even though she was devastated about Earth, she seemed to be finding common ground again with Lee and that there was genuine hope, so it is odd.
I think GKE is spot on with the Ellen / Six connection. Isn't one of the Six's pregnant with Sol's potential child?
I'm not sure I buy into the fact that "there are no humans anymore." At the beginning of the show, there were stated 12 Cylon models. The six models we started seeing over and over and over again were all copies. The five kind of broke that in they appeared unique. Now we are thinking that everyone in the fleet or that was alive in the colonies was unique cylon models also? Sort of completely goes against...well....everything.
And, to be honest, the thing I always had issues with was the timeframe from when the Cylons were created by the 12 colonies, to when they "evolved" to the "skinjob" models, and tying all that into this several thousand year history.
Some of this just doesnt seem to be coming together well.
Some things are sure to be fleshed out in the next nine episodes, but I have to say a lot of this is unfolding rather oddly and doesn't make a whole lot of sense in general when you take a step back from it. As I said before I think GKE is pretty close with his theories --- at least from a standpoint of where the show is NOW --- but the show in the first season or two sure doesnt look like it was intended to work out this way, rather it was going in a different direction (if it was going in a direction at all)
I think GKE is spot on with the Ellen / Six connection. Isn't one of the Six's pregnant with Sol's potential child?
I'm not sure I buy into the fact that "there are no humans anymore." At the beginning of the show, there were stated 12 Cylon models. The six models we started seeing over and over and over again were all copies. The five kind of broke that in they appeared unique. Now we are thinking that everyone in the fleet or that was alive in the colonies was unique cylon models also? Sort of completely goes against...well....everything.
And, to be honest, the thing I always had issues with was the timeframe from when the Cylons were created by the 12 colonies, to when they "evolved" to the "skinjob" models, and tying all that into this several thousand year history.
Some of this just doesnt seem to be coming together well.
Some things are sure to be fleshed out in the next nine episodes, but I have to say a lot of this is unfolding rather oddly and doesn't make a whole lot of sense in general when you take a step back from it. As I said before I think GKE is pretty close with his theories --- at least from a standpoint of where the show is NOW --- but the show in the first season or two sure doesnt look like it was intended to work out this way, rather it was going in a different direction (if it was going in a direction at all)
Galahad
Regular
I shouldn't be here... we don't get it yet...
I don't think they evolved, I think the toaster cylons abducted humans during the first Cylon War and they performed experiments on them that led to the cybernetic technology that brought the hybrids, first cyborg raiders and eventually the skin jobs along.
I thought Adama's experiences in Razor hinted at this.
Clearly the skin jobs still have some kind of residual technology in them as their spines start glowing kinkily when they are having sex.
I don't think they evolved, I think the toaster cylons abducted humans during the first Cylon War and they performed experiments on them that led to the cybernetic technology that brought the hybrids, first cyborg raiders and eventually the skin jobs along.
I thought Adama's experiences in Razor hinted at this.
Clearly the skin jobs still have some kind of residual technology in them as their spines start glowing kinkily when they are having sex.
Chilli
High Treason Prevention Officer
You know, this is another thing that has bothered me.
They've got spines that glow kinky red when they have sex, but with Galactica's extensive medical resources, they are not able to determine a way to distinguish between humans and Cylons?
Alluveal
Regular
This has all happened before and will happen again.
Maybe the whole 13th colony is just a cylon trick to lure the humans to their doom. I think they'll wrap it up. My only worry is that we'll have a lot of crap filler that is utterly useless, when they could end the show in 2 episodes by focusing hardcore on what they need to.
Maybe the whole 13th colony is just a cylon trick to lure the humans to their doom. I think they'll wrap it up. My only worry is that we'll have a lot of crap filler that is utterly useless, when they could end the show in 2 episodes by focusing hardcore on what they need to.
Recoil
Regular
Exactly my point. So the first Cylon war was how long ago? Adama is maybe 60? So 30 years in the past? This show is now talking about THOUSANDS of years. Here is where I feel things fall apart.
IF what you say is correct. This all happened before crap. OK so the Centurions in the first Cylon War (the Razor war) created the Hybrids and the Skinjob between then and present day galactica...then what we have is a case where the "Earth" they are on, evolved completely independant of what happened in the Colonies --- and way BEFORE it.
However, I have a problem with the Pilot movie. They received a message that there were 12 models. We only saw 7. These "Final Five" from all they are showing us have NOTHING to do with Skinjobs invented by the Centurions in the very recent history. So why are they considered part of the model line? Hell from all we have seen, they dont appear to have any copies, they are all originals!
It would make more sense, if they had said in the Pilot that there are 7 models...because from what we all have seen so far, they final 5 and the rest are NOTING alike, and not related at all.
So this "Earth" is 100% Cylons? Then where did the humans in the colonies come from? Or where did they go? They can't sit there and say that all the bones in the Earth planet are Cylon and then reveal to us later that EVERYONE is a Cylon because --- bullshit --- they would have detected that back since...I dont know...for EVER.
So there are tons of holes and I think things are getting pulled farther apart. I guess we will see soon enough, but there is a lot here that just flat out makes zero sense from many angles.
Excellent point! What is so damn hard about that? Also funny, in the last episode, they discovered rather quickly that all of the bones on "Earth" were Cylon. Apparently it isn't that hard to tell after all. Granted, we had Baltar inventing the Cylon detection process and he didn't want to do it for obvious reasons, so he stalled, but there were other times and places when this could have come out.
Recoil
Regular
OK sorry for the double-post (KoshN would be proud) but I just read an interesting interview of Ronald D Moore about this very episode. Its a good read and a good insight to anyone who is interested. Obviously, he doesn't spoil anything beyond the episode that just aired. He does make a few interesting comments and revelations though. I have a few questions to those who remember.
First, here is the interview:
RDM BSG Interview (Season 4 Episode 11)
Now, here is a question I had about something he had just said. The interviewer comments on the timeline issues I have above. To quote:
"The part of the timeline I'm having trouble with is this: We know that the Colonies had a cataclysm 2,000 years ago, then we find out Earth had a cataclysm 2,000 years ago. Am I getting somethign wrong in how I'm looking at the history?"
RDM confirms that he is getting it correctly, and that more will be revealed soon. My question is, WHEN was it mentioned that the Colonies had a "cataclysm" 2,000 years ago? What was it? I don't remember that episode or the parts behind it.
Another interesting point, is how he pretty much states that he had no idea that the "Final Five" cylon models would be different, until well into Season 3 (of a four Season show). That certainly does go along with some of the "boy they didn't have this stuff figured out" mindset thats floating around. He also states that they didn't decide who the final cylon was until the end of Season 3, and frankly, they finalized it between the end of Season 3 and the start of Season 4.
I'm not gonna lie, part of this worries me a bit. I was never a fan of these five cylons being different than the rest and it all felt like it was pulled out of you-know-where. Now we find out that it really was. However, in thinking about this some, I've realized that Babylon 5 did things of this nature as well. The whole Sheridan thing was a HUGE change in JMSs planned story arc for the show, which came about at the end of Season 1. While I think he did a good job making all things work (except I had an issue with Delenn being in the suit in WWE) he also had an early start on it all after only one season. So after thinking about it, I guess I'm less concerned with details like the Final 5 being invented more than halfway through the show, as long as it gets WRAPPED UP WELL.
Early indications seem to fit that it will. As GKE said, there are lots of symmetry points between Ellen, Six, and Sol. There is a lot of history between the characters, so this late-decision seems to FIT THE STORY as it is unfolding OK. Honestly, I didn't have an issue with it being Ellen, and really wasn't that interested in who it was anyway. It SOUNDS like there timeline piece may fit into place well --- which would also be a good thing.
That leaves a few other major details to be summed up. So I guess I'm not as worried with how they changed direction so late in the show, as I am that they really finish it well.
The above interview also tells alot about the darkness of the show, and I had a few other thoughts. I was REALLY reminded of the original BSG series when Kara found her Viper. When she came across the cockpit of the wreck, and started to turn it over, and Leoban stepped back and warned her away, I instantly thought about the original series when Apollo and Starbuck find the crashed ship with Count Iblis and they warn Sheba away. This show really does pull a LOT from the original series and people never seem to comment on it. The entire idea of "This has happend before and will again" is also from the original series, which was founded on a lot of Morom cyclical history mythology. This show pulls a lot more from the original than people realize, and I think Kara finding that ship was very reminiscient of that.
Sometimes I think the whole "this has happened before and will again" is also a big "in-joke" in that a lot of the new series really IS pulling from the core of the original. So it happened before in 1978 and is happening again in 2004-2008. Its not as much a reboot as people think, just told in a different way.
First, here is the interview:
RDM BSG Interview (Season 4 Episode 11)
Now, here is a question I had about something he had just said. The interviewer comments on the timeline issues I have above. To quote:
"The part of the timeline I'm having trouble with is this: We know that the Colonies had a cataclysm 2,000 years ago, then we find out Earth had a cataclysm 2,000 years ago. Am I getting somethign wrong in how I'm looking at the history?"
RDM confirms that he is getting it correctly, and that more will be revealed soon. My question is, WHEN was it mentioned that the Colonies had a "cataclysm" 2,000 years ago? What was it? I don't remember that episode or the parts behind it.
Another interesting point, is how he pretty much states that he had no idea that the "Final Five" cylon models would be different, until well into Season 3 (of a four Season show). That certainly does go along with some of the "boy they didn't have this stuff figured out" mindset thats floating around. He also states that they didn't decide who the final cylon was until the end of Season 3, and frankly, they finalized it between the end of Season 3 and the start of Season 4.
I'm not gonna lie, part of this worries me a bit. I was never a fan of these five cylons being different than the rest and it all felt like it was pulled out of you-know-where. Now we find out that it really was. However, in thinking about this some, I've realized that Babylon 5 did things of this nature as well. The whole Sheridan thing was a HUGE change in JMSs planned story arc for the show, which came about at the end of Season 1. While I think he did a good job making all things work (except I had an issue with Delenn being in the suit in WWE) he also had an early start on it all after only one season. So after thinking about it, I guess I'm less concerned with details like the Final 5 being invented more than halfway through the show, as long as it gets WRAPPED UP WELL.
Early indications seem to fit that it will. As GKE said, there are lots of symmetry points between Ellen, Six, and Sol. There is a lot of history between the characters, so this late-decision seems to FIT THE STORY as it is unfolding OK. Honestly, I didn't have an issue with it being Ellen, and really wasn't that interested in who it was anyway. It SOUNDS like there timeline piece may fit into place well --- which would also be a good thing.
That leaves a few other major details to be summed up. So I guess I'm not as worried with how they changed direction so late in the show, as I am that they really finish it well.
The above interview also tells alot about the darkness of the show, and I had a few other thoughts. I was REALLY reminded of the original BSG series when Kara found her Viper. When she came across the cockpit of the wreck, and started to turn it over, and Leoban stepped back and warned her away, I instantly thought about the original series when Apollo and Starbuck find the crashed ship with Count Iblis and they warn Sheba away. This show really does pull a LOT from the original series and people never seem to comment on it. The entire idea of "This has happend before and will again" is also from the original series, which was founded on a lot of Morom cyclical history mythology. This show pulls a lot more from the original than people realize, and I think Kara finding that ship was very reminiscient of that.
Sometimes I think the whole "this has happened before and will again" is also a big "in-joke" in that a lot of the new series really IS pulling from the core of the original. So it happened before in 1978 and is happening again in 2004-2008. Its not as much a reboot as people think, just told in a different way.
Garovorkin
Regular
Its simple , the people of Kobol were machines , like the human model Cylons, they created their own version that rebelled and evolved and in turn repeated the same history. I bet you that who ever created the kobol machines were machines themselves, every event in history is them repeated the same mistakes of the original humans. they are stuck in a repeating program loop. its probably been happening for god knows how many thousands of years. the same people reoccurred over and over again. its just a thought. This idea occurred to me when they reached kobol,
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Alluveal
Regular
I think if it would have stated that the colonies experienced a cataclysm, that it would have likely been in one of the Kobol's episodes. Six tells Baltar a lot about the planet. But, I honestly don't recall for certain.
I don't ever bring up the original BSG because I honestly don't care about it. I never got into it. It doesn't bother me that they take things from the original series.
I think that even more will be revealed in the new Caprica series. There is a link there between the cylons found on "Earth" and the cylons that were supposedly created what? 40 years ago? Could be that one of the "five" had knowledge of how to build machines and had them built through some big corporation (likely for not-so-honorable means.)
My thoughts are that the 12 colony cylons are simply a version of the "original" cylons which were created on Earth. It could be that all 12 cylons models were created the same in the beginning: more of a reincarnation thing. Yet, perhaps the 7 were somehow lost and new "bodies" were created for them, new "copies." I'm not sure.
I could see Tigh being the one to take the knowledge from Earth to the 12 colonies in hopes of resurrecting Ellen.
Just random ideas. I use "reincarnation" for lack of a better term. Not sure what to call it right now. It's really up in the air.
I think Kara is a hybrid of some kind (like Tyrol's son and Hera.) Her memories came back in a brand-spankin' new body, with a brand-spankin' new ship. The question for her would be, who put her in that body? Who made the new ship? There is another planet/ship whatnot out there that we haven't seen yet. I think this will be the true Earth. Maybe.
Anyway, off to bed.
I don't ever bring up the original BSG because I honestly don't care about it. I never got into it. It doesn't bother me that they take things from the original series.
I think that even more will be revealed in the new Caprica series. There is a link there between the cylons found on "Earth" and the cylons that were supposedly created what? 40 years ago? Could be that one of the "five" had knowledge of how to build machines and had them built through some big corporation (likely for not-so-honorable means.)
My thoughts are that the 12 colony cylons are simply a version of the "original" cylons which were created on Earth. It could be that all 12 cylons models were created the same in the beginning: more of a reincarnation thing. Yet, perhaps the 7 were somehow lost and new "bodies" were created for them, new "copies." I'm not sure.
I could see Tigh being the one to take the knowledge from Earth to the 12 colonies in hopes of resurrecting Ellen.
Just random ideas. I use "reincarnation" for lack of a better term. Not sure what to call it right now. It's really up in the air.
I think Kara is a hybrid of some kind (like Tyrol's son and Hera.) Her memories came back in a brand-spankin' new body, with a brand-spankin' new ship. The question for her would be, who put her in that body? Who made the new ship? There is another planet/ship whatnot out there that we haven't seen yet. I think this will be the true Earth. Maybe.
Anyway, off to bed.
Garovorkin
Regular
I would say that the final revelation, is going to be quite devastating to not only Kara but Adama and everyone else. you may see more people in the fleet taking the easy way out like Duella did. It convinces me that none of them are really human, they are repeating the mistakes of the original machines and humans. I think the ending of this series is going to be rather bleak though i could be wrong. Hera does not represent a whole new begining so much as the being ing of a whole new tragic cycle.
