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Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)
- Thread starter Alluveal
- Start date
GKarsEye
Regular
I'm not diggin' the analogy. The Enterprise is a lone ship, while Galactica is head of a fleet. Adama is in command of the fleet, not the ship, and that's what was being taken away from him.
And standing there getting shot at for no good practical reason is essentially giving up the cause, and Kirk would never give up, never surrender. And neither would Tim Allen.
I think it's possible that we missed some dialogue where this really was part of some other plan, that culminated with Roslyn telling him she understood what he had to do. Equally as fishy as him apparently willingly dying is Roslyn encouraging it. I think we're missing an important piece here, to be revealed next week.
And standing there getting shot at for no good practical reason is essentially giving up the cause, and Kirk would never give up, never surrender. And neither would Tim Allen.
I think it's possible that we missed some dialogue where this really was part of some other plan, that culminated with Roslyn telling him she understood what he had to do. Equally as fishy as him apparently willingly dying is Roslyn encouraging it. I think we're missing an important piece here, to be revealed next week.
Recoil
Regular
Well I agree with some of that, and that it might be a bad analogy, whoever while Adama may be in charge of the fleet but, as has been a key point in the series,its a fleet of Civilian Ships, and his is a military vessel. So while he is the de-facto in charge, the Galactica was his ship for decades before he ever had the rag-tag fleet.
I think it comes down to ego. The ship is his, and no one is going to take it from him. Captain going down with his ship so to speak.
You could be right though...might be something we are missing perhaps yet to be revealed.
I think it comes down to ego. The ship is his, and no one is going to take it from him. Captain going down with his ship so to speak.
You could be right though...might be something we are missing perhaps yet to be revealed.
Galahad
Regular
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vacantlook
Super Moderator
That makes me think of Rygel on Farscape when he once said, "I never run away; I strategically maneuver!"
Alluveal
Regular
This is how I feel. After all they've been through with the ship and the fleet, there's no way. He'll get captured.
Cavil will show up.
Adama will be the only one who can save them (joining with the other rebel cylons)
And they'll all live . . . ____ ever after.
Galahad
Regular
I agree with that... but I've always seen the sacrifice of Enterprise as being motivated by his need to save his friends more than an attempt to deny the Klingons their prize. The reason he nuked the ship was to take down enough Klingons to give his people a fighting chance.
Interesting random fact that links these two genre heavyweights... Nimoy originally wanted Edward James Olmos to play the character of Kruge.
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vacantlook
Super Moderator
Well, that was enjoyable.
I was particularly surprised when...
Next week's episode looks good.
I was particularly surprised when...
Spoiler for tonight's episode:
Next week's episode looks good.
Recoil
Regular
I too was wondering what Tyrol was looking at on the Bulkhead...
Another solid episode. Zarek and Gaeta took things for quite a ride in this one, and I thought both actors were excellent -- -especially in their last scene. Quite a sendoff for both of them. Really ended with an exclamation mark.
Another solid episode. Zarek and Gaeta took things for quite a ride in this one, and I thought both actors were excellent -- -especially in their last scene. Quite a sendoff for both of them. Really ended with an exclamation mark.
GKarsEye
Regular
Easily the best episode since the New Caprica stories. Gaeta has been, for me, the most interesting, well acted character in the series. I'm a sucker for the grand tragic figure, and he fit the bill perfectly.
I don't need to get into praising the obviously great moments with him, but I do want to draw attention to two:
1. The moment he realized he lost and ordered his men to stand down and accept defeat while Zarek demanded more violence. Just a brilliantly acted and shot sequence.
2. Gaeta's final conversation with Baltar. The classic dramatic device of sending off a character after a great dramatic climax by throwing in some human touches. As he listed his potential career choices and interests, we're reminded that here's a guy who was really brilliant, dedicated and hard-working, and now that energy is going to waste.
"I just want people to remember who I am"
"I know who you are"
I've had very similar dialogue in my life, so that kind of struck a chord with me.
One of my favorite things about Babylon 5 was how, at its best, it could portray great geo-political and historical truths. Zarek's and Gaeta's revolution did that by reminding me of Lenin, Castro/Guevera, and the Iranian Islamic revolution. Sometimes we Americans forget that those revolution were really against brutal, oppressive regimes and the revolutionaries were justified in their anger. But the nature of violent revolution itself will corrupt even the best intentioned. Gaeta was no fan of Zarek, but assumed his kind of evil was necessary for that moment, as I imagine Lenin figured he needed Stalin, Guevera embraced Castro, etc. But when you take power by force, you have to keep it by force, and the cycle never ends, and you find yourself more and more involved with dangerous forces.
Still, my jaw did hit the floor when Zarek ordered the assassination of the entire quarum- and the soldiers obeyed! Boy did he not like being called "vice president."
Kudos to Hot Dog for exercising civic and moral restraint by not shooting down the president.
Roslyn's "I'm coming for all of you!" moment- couldn't decide if it was effectively powerful or comically over the top.
Adama was at his most bad-ass. Not a guy you'd want to have as an enemy.
I don't need to get into praising the obviously great moments with him, but I do want to draw attention to two:
1. The moment he realized he lost and ordered his men to stand down and accept defeat while Zarek demanded more violence. Just a brilliantly acted and shot sequence.
2. Gaeta's final conversation with Baltar. The classic dramatic device of sending off a character after a great dramatic climax by throwing in some human touches. As he listed his potential career choices and interests, we're reminded that here's a guy who was really brilliant, dedicated and hard-working, and now that energy is going to waste.
"I just want people to remember who I am"
"I know who you are"
I've had very similar dialogue in my life, so that kind of struck a chord with me.
One of my favorite things about Babylon 5 was how, at its best, it could portray great geo-political and historical truths. Zarek's and Gaeta's revolution did that by reminding me of Lenin, Castro/Guevera, and the Iranian Islamic revolution. Sometimes we Americans forget that those revolution were really against brutal, oppressive regimes and the revolutionaries were justified in their anger. But the nature of violent revolution itself will corrupt even the best intentioned. Gaeta was no fan of Zarek, but assumed his kind of evil was necessary for that moment, as I imagine Lenin figured he needed Stalin, Guevera embraced Castro, etc. But when you take power by force, you have to keep it by force, and the cycle never ends, and you find yourself more and more involved with dangerous forces.
Still, my jaw did hit the floor when Zarek ordered the assassination of the entire quarum- and the soldiers obeyed! Boy did he not like being called "vice president."
Kudos to Hot Dog for exercising civic and moral restraint by not shooting down the president.
Roslyn's "I'm coming for all of you!" moment- couldn't decide if it was effectively powerful or comically over the top.
Adama was at his most bad-ass. Not a guy you'd want to have as an enemy.
Alluveal
Regular
Blown away by this episode. I'm sad and a little pissed that Gaeta is gone as I've always found him such an amazing actor. Make this scene with him singing in season 3 even more complex:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wdoCGaH6Sw
He's a wonderful actor and I hope he can really show what he's made of outside of Galactica. You could read the emotion and inner turmoil all over his face throughout the episode. He respected Adama, and it was a great contrast to see this portrayed w/o words. You had the one guy tell Adama, "I'm sorry, sir, I always respected you . . ." but Gaeta did this all (and more) without the use of dialogue. Genius moments.
I liked the President's moment at the end. It might have been over the top, but it was very appropriate for the rising action of the story--building and building and geesh, I was just in knots. The way the cylons looked at her, it was like they were finally realizing what it meant to be human.
A side nitpick. What is up with 6 and Baltar? The "original 6" that now has Tigh's baby inside her? Wasn't that Baltar's gal from Caprica? No screen time with them? No more Six in Baltar's head? Where did that go?
Not sure what Tyrol was looking at. My best guess is that it's something that will be played out in the final episode when Galactica will be destroyed (and I think we all know that sucker's going down with Adama in it.) I still think he may be the "dying leader" at this point. And the new "Earth" they find, he will never get to see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wdoCGaH6Sw
He's a wonderful actor and I hope he can really show what he's made of outside of Galactica. You could read the emotion and inner turmoil all over his face throughout the episode. He respected Adama, and it was a great contrast to see this portrayed w/o words. You had the one guy tell Adama, "I'm sorry, sir, I always respected you . . ." but Gaeta did this all (and more) without the use of dialogue. Genius moments.
I liked the President's moment at the end. It might have been over the top, but it was very appropriate for the rising action of the story--building and building and geesh, I was just in knots. The way the cylons looked at her, it was like they were finally realizing what it meant to be human.
A side nitpick. What is up with 6 and Baltar? The "original 6" that now has Tigh's baby inside her? Wasn't that Baltar's gal from Caprica? No screen time with them? No more Six in Baltar's head? Where did that go?
Not sure what Tyrol was looking at. My best guess is that it's something that will be played out in the final episode when Galactica will be destroyed (and I think we all know that sucker's going down with Adama in it.) I still think he may be the "dying leader" at this point. And the new "Earth" they find, he will never get to see it.
Recoil
Regular
Yes to all of this. When the one guy stood up and told him he had to leave I was like "well, hes not getting very far" and then how he so casually ordered the guards to kill them all, and they did it --- that was definitely a jaw-dropping moment.
I was back and forth on the Roslyn thing too. I couldn't tell if the actress just didn't pull the scene off well, or whether she really nailed it with all the turmoil and emotion in her voice. Either way, alike Alluveal said, I think the Cylons there were in awe of her and did get a big lesson in being human.
Adama was classic.
My only complaint about this arc...is they built up the coup thing awfully quick. Episode 11 was the first after the hiatus...and the two part coup was done in Episodes 13 and 14. On one hand, I would have liked to have seen a little more build-up....but on the other, they do need to move things along, and frankly after the big Earth let-down and Cylons hanging out, maybe things would have come to a head quickly. Not a big thing for me, but wished it would have been a bit more sweeping is all.
admiraldave
Regular
This episode was chock full of great moments for almost everyone in the cast, from Adama to Zarek. I was pleased to see Kelly back, thought the character didn't deserve the mad bomber arc, so his redemption was nice to see. Loved Apollo and Starbuck breaking out the Cylons. I even liked seeing a Leoben helping out Roslin.
Effectively powerful for me. The edge of hysteria sold it.
Effectively powerful for me. The edge of hysteria sold it.
Of course Roslyn's moment was over the top. She recently came to terms with dying and allowed herself to fall in love with Adama. I can't imagine her acting any other way. I would have used more colorful language but I think she did just fine.
I must say that these last 4 episodes have been awesome and i wished that the previous seasons were paced and thought out so well.
I must say that these last 4 episodes have been awesome and i wished that the previous seasons were paced and thought out so well.
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GKarsEye
Regular
I think that alone wouldn't have earned his death sentence- Zarek was probably willing to let them pretend to be relevant. It's when the guy made a point to call him "Mr Vice President," effectively telling him that he did not accept the ousting of Roselyn. Note how eager Zarek would later be to refer to himself as President of the Colonies.
What I love about Zarek is his ego. Justice, oppression, blah blah, but he just thinks he's awesome, first and foremost.
Yeah, thanks for bringing down my BSG high by reminding me of everything that's wrong w/ this show. I gave up trying to keep my 6s and Sharons straight. In addition to the stuff you mentioned, what about natural-dirty-blonde 6 on the Cylon base ship that Baltar was mackin' it with? What was her deal again?
vacantlook
Super Moderator
I enjoyed the bit of development in Baltar's character in the episode, but that copy of Six did come jarringly out of nowhere. I think it would have sit better if he had been talking to the Six he hallucinates about or the copy of Six that was on the bridge of the cylon ship -- she could've been talking with Baltar while Leoben was helping Roslin or something.
Alluveal
Regular
I'm just tweaked by the inconsistencies. Baltar and super-blonde 6 were tight--in each others' heads, yeah? Not anymore? Where did that mystery go? Never explained. Not even a glance to one another on the baseship. He just hops in bed with another Six (another one that none of us really give a flip about, besides the fact that she's the hottest one so far, imho.)
vacantlook
Super Moderator
The platinum blond Six on the bridge of the baseship isn't the one Baltar had the relationship with. The one he had the relationship with -- "Caprica" as D'Anna kept calling her -- was in the brig on Galactica and is pregnant with Tigh's child.
I still think an explanation for the "Six" that Baltar hallucinates is forthcoming and that that hallucination has little to actually do with Six herself but just looks like her, after all, there was that one episode where Baltar hallucinated seeing himself.
