Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: SPOILERS

[Kribu]

So... has anyone else but me read it?

I'm still in two minds regarding what I feel about it... I think overall, I'd rate it as good, but I'm not entirely sure. It had plenty of stuff in it that I didn't care too much about... and I've read better written fanfics than this (with a lot of the same stuff in them, apart from the whole Dumbledore/Grindelwald storyline).

It had weird plot holes, questionable things any decent editor ought to have noticed (Hermione modifying the memories of her parents to a massive extent and then saying about two pages later that she's never tried a memory charm? huh? did she perform a Confundus charm on herself in the meantime?), and the whole wand ownership stuff was a bit rubbish IMHO... and the epilogue was cheese of the most major sort (and copied about 57 fanfics I've read), and I kept hoping Ron would die or something, so that Hermione wouldn't have to end up with him... but on the other hand, I couldn't put the book down for the seven or so hours that it took me to read it (my back is killing me!) and I did enjoy a lot of it.

And Snape's the romantic, brave, noble hero!! Who got a very lousy and pointless death (well, it was still better than the one Lupin and Tonks got - I mean, huh?), true, but on the other hand, with no mention of what happened to his body and no portrait turning up in the headmaster's room, I can pretend he didn't really die, I guess.

Although in the light of this book, I really don't think leaving Lily out of the "Snape's worst memory" scene in the Order of the Phoenix film was a very smart thing to do.

 

[hypatia]

Ah, you are much harsher on it that I have been.

I have to grade today, and I'm a slow reader. I admit, I skipped around and basically just read the last few chapters and not much else.

SPOILERS FOR BOOK 7, DEATHLY HALLOWS:
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I so hated the theory that in the last book it would be revealed that Snape really loved Lily. That is just toooooooooo gooey-love,love,love to me. But I must say I'm pretty pleased with what I read of the ending.

I wondered when/if JKR would really get into the "mothers love" thing. Both in Harry's past and with Mrs. Weasley regarding Ginny. I wish that bit had been longer, more detailed. Nothing quite like an infurated mother defending her young.

I soooooooooooooooooo predicted that one of the two twins would get wasted. What is it about twins in literature that has to do this? I guess it's a chance to explore the "fate worse than death" thing the surviving twin feels.

I soooooooooooooo thought one of the main three kiddos would get wasted (either Hermione or Ron but possibly Harry). And Hagrid. I think he was on just about everyone's "death list" this last month.

Here's to Dumbledore's Army!

 

[Kribu]

I really wasn't a big fan of the Snape/Lily theory before, but I think what made it easier for me to tolerate it is that they actually had a friendship / relationship going on well before school already - that it wasn't *just* a teenage crush or something like that. (And I suppose Snape was "that awful boy" Petunia referred to in.. book 5 I think?)

I'm not sure I really like her being the whole and entire reason of him switching sides, and staying on the side of Light, but I suppose that as time passed, he probably did gain other reasons for staying on the right side as well.

As for the rest... I kept thinking Hagrid would die, and there certainly were several instances where it was close! But I guess Rowling figured most people would expect Hagrid to get it (like with Snape, just that I can't unfortunately see her ever giving Snape a happy ending), and thus went for the more unexpected instead - offing both Tonks and Lupin (that seemed so tacked on and random, just to increase the body count - I felt far more shocked and sad at Hedwig's death!).

I'm really not too pleased with the epilogue though. It was just so very fanfic... everyone conveniently having kids the same age (and of course Harry & Ginny having kids called James and Lily - I think I've just read that way too many times before to appreciate it in the book, even if it made sense - just too obvious) and soppily sending them off to Hogwarts. We don't even know what else apart from breeding they have all (apart from Neville) done with their lives - well, in 19 years, Ron apparently almost managed to learn to drive, but apart from that...

I will refuse to believe Snape is actually properly dead though. Or that Ron & Hermione got married - it wasn't actually mentioned after all! (Okay, I was cheering when Ron took off during the quest, hoping that if he's not killed, he'd at least be out of the picture. Damn, I knew that was too good to be true!)

*lives on in denial*

 

[hypatia]

I already admitted to only reading the last chapters. Was Snape named headmaster early in the book? If so, there is something suspicious about his not having a portrait. DD's seemed to appear instantly upon his death.

I think the bravest thing JKR did, by far, was to have a character with a terminal condition (one year of life left, at best) who did actually arrange to be killed. Have any other children fantasy books been so brave? In this world today, with the very live debate of "right to die" versus "keep alive for as long as possible, no matter what". He effectively asked for an "assisted suicide" when he ordered Snape to kill him. Wow, that is just such a gutsy move.

And I soooooooooooo knew one but probably not both of the twins would bite it. I didn't realize yet Hedwig had gone, but with over 50 dead I know there's a lot I've missed.

I'll start reading from the beginning tonight. Probably still be reading it August 3rd. Damn thing is too big to hold comfortably when in bed, though.

 

[Kribu]

Was Snape named headmaster early in the book? If so, there is something suspicious about his not having a portrait. DD's seemed to appear instantly upon his death.

Yeah, he was headmaster for basically the whole school year. I guess it's possible a portrait never got commissioned - but IIRC it was made clear over the course of the series that all former headmasters and headmistresses had their portraits hanging in the study.

In any case, it's a point in favour of my "Sevvie's not really dead" belief, so I'm going to hang on to it.

I just wish that someone on the Order's side had known about his loyalties - Minerva, at least. I can only imagine how hard that last year was on Snape, being hated and reviled by everyone (well, every non-Death Eater anyway, and probably by plenty of them as well), having to keep up the façade, trying to do his best to appear completely loyal to Voldemort while attempting to protect the school and the kids as much as he could (which obviously couldn't be too much or it would have looked way too suspicious). And then dying suddenly, randomly, still hated by everyone, never really knowing if the truth would actually come out.

 

[hypatia]

But the second fate would be so much more "fitting" to his character. Again, I'm just going by what I've read in other literature.

He had too much bitterness to ever "live happily ever after". But the poor guy never got a smidge of the recognition he'd so craved all his life.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

So, for those of us who aren't going to read the books, but have had to endure all the media hype, What happens to Voldemort and Harry, in the end, simplified version, please?

 

[crazyhorse]

One dies

 

[admiraldave]

Going into the book, I was most concerned for Neville, who I thought would be dead meat. So his survival, and hearing and seeing him kick ass was great.

I'm ... satisfied. I found the epilogue kinda useless, I got the happy-ever-after I wanted from just seeing Voldemort defeated, but I did enjoy the battle for Hogwarts, and every character that returned made me grin.

 

[Kribu]

So, for those of us who aren't going to read the books, but have had to endure all the media hype, What happens to Voldemort and Harry, in the end, simplified version, please?

Voldemort and Harry? They were in the book too? Who cares about those two, anyway?

 

[hypatia]

They'll both be cut from the movie, as being superfluous to the story...

By the time book 7 comes about, who will want to direct it? There are a few things the movies left out that shouldn't have been, but someone is going to have to inherit this whole mess for movie 7.

 

[Kribu]

Indeed. I mean, I was annoyed with the way the whole 'Snape's worst memory' scene was handled in the OotP film before, but after reading DH... leaving Lily out of it is even worse. Unless they go with a blatant infodump about Lily/Severus in the HBP movie now, it's going to come completely out of the blue in DH for the people that only watch the films and don't read the books.

Provided they bother with the whole Snape/Lily storyline at all of course, and don't have Harry just AK Voldie in the end.

 

[A_Ranger]

Man, I can't believe how badly you guys are picking this apart. I loved it. I really don't see any holes than can't be explained if you just think about it. She doesn't have to spell every single little thing out. Wow, I was amazed by the book. She really went all out for this one.

 

[A_Ranger]

Kribu, I think the 7th film is f****d. There is absolutely no way I think they can trim this stuff down to and make it have sense and have the same emotional impact. I just hope that whoever directs insists on making it a 3 hour film. As much as I liked the 5th film, it really suffered from David Yate's "it must be under 2 and a half hours" b.s.

 

[hypatia]

Personally, I've stopped seeing well-over-two-hour movies in the theater. Although my particular health issues may well be the only real reason I have for it.

What I don't understand is why movies with intermissions are just not considered at all anymore. So you feel you either have to be under 2.5 hours or make it a miniseries, or two movies?

What's wrong with having a 3-hour-plus movie with an intermission? Can it really waste more time for the theater, really, than a 2.5 hour movie?

And yea you are not alone in wondering who they are going to stick with the sad job of making movie 7. It will take two hours just to itemize everyone who died, and how.

I am having a problem with the last books of the series and how people and other loved ones are dieing for no good reaason at all. I suppose that's the point. But between the oh-so-predictable choices she made (I'm sorry, I guessed all but one of the "people really close to Harry who died" and I"m not much of a guesser).

She became preditable, is what I am finally concluding. The last book isn't tripe, and does have it's definite points. But her ultimate theme just got sappier and sappier from book 5 and on, to the point where I had to realize she's marketing this for those young ones who have just discovered the pleasures and pains of the hormone years.

Oddly, I find myself glad I read the last book, but equally glad the series was over. I mean I usually do not guess the majority of what is being left for the "big surprise ending". Her choices were getting... prretty obvious to me.

All in all, a series well worth investing some time into. Food for thought. Especially in how people reacted to it, both positive and negative.

 

[crazyhorse]

In Holland and Belgium all movies have an intermission,just long enough for a quick beer and smoke.It annoyed me at first but now I've gotten used to it I quite enjoy it.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Got to agree on the Intermission thing ... the Extended LotR movies are a perfect example. Each movie is split down into two halves over two discs forcing at least some sort of intermission halfway through. Works really well for me. However, I doubt the movie theatres would be so accomodating since it would add, what, 5-10 minutes to the running time of every showing of every long movie and perhaps impact on the number of showings they could get into a day and therefore its money-making potential.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

I did hear that British cinemas were thinking on bringing back the usherette that sells snacks. She will need an intermission to sell in.

 

[hypatia]

Got to agree on the Intermission thing ... the Extended LotR movies are a perfect example. Each movie is split down into two halves over two discs forcing at least some sort of intermission halfway through. Works really well for me. However, I doubt the movie theatres would be so accomodating since it would add, what, 5-10 minutes to the running time of every showing of every long movie and perhaps impact on the number of showings they could get into a day and therefore its money-making potential.

Well, some movies used to be just over an hour and a half. Since the big blockbuster-wanna-be's came movie time I think on average has gone way up. Yet no movie theater that I know of announced "we're not showing LotR since it's almost twice the length of this nice little 90 minute film here, we can get a lot more showings of the 90 minute film in, so it's the one we'll show".

So considering that, I don't really buy that a two-and-a-half hour film will be rejected by the movie theater if it's given a 15 minute intermission. Unless it proved unpopular witht he majority of moviegoers, which these days is quite possible.

Maybe it's just us old fogies who are complaining, I don't know.

I just know that the long movies, no break, I find I can't really relax and enjoy like I can when they come out on HBO or on DVD.

 

[KoshFan]

I liked the book -- at some points I actually cheered. Kreacher's about-face was sudden but glorious. Neville was great. McGonnagal was great (I especially loved her army of desks, glorious image). Sparing the Malfoys was great.

Snape was twisted but great -- although I would have loved to see him get more screen time. And the highlight of the epilogue was discovering how much Harry appreciated him.