I'm happy, sort of

[RW7427]

I\'m happy, sort of

I watched and taped "Confessions and Lamentations" for the first time last night. I always seemed to miss it every time it was on, so I specifically asked for last night off from work so I could watch it and tape it. I almost forgot it was on and ended up missing like 10 or 15 minutes of it before I realized it was on. I ran out in the lving room and started taping. I came in right at the point where Dr Franklin and Dr Lazarus were talking about the Drafa plague and how it first started on the Markab Homeworld. I am glad that I was still able to see the episode and tape it, but could kick myself for missing the first part because I was fooling around on the computer.

I thought that Confessions was a very good episode. But it is also a very sad episode. I almost cried a couple of times, especially with the little girl that Delenn was trying to comfort coming down sick and the part where she and Lennier had to tell the others that all the Markabs were dead. Even though I almost cried, I was still glad to finally see this episode.

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The Whitestar Salad Bar, our last best hope for peace, and a good meal too!

[This message has been edited by RW7427 (edited November 02, 2001).]

 

[KoshN]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

Hey. Check your ICQ.

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[channe]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

This was the only Babylon 5 episode I watched during it's original run (I never got into it because it was aired at 2 am where I was and at the time we didn't own a VCR).

I remember thinking... "Oh my God. They died. That doesn't happen on TV..." I was very, very affected by the story. At the time, stories like that were just not being done on television, or so I can remember.

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Channe, the next JMS
--
Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgiastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that's no matter - tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther... and one fine morning - so we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
-f. scott fitzgerald

 

[Jomar]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by channe:


I remember thinking... "Oh my God. They died. That doesn't happen on TV..." I was very, very affected by the story. At the time, stories like that were just not being done on television, or so I can remember.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right about that. Franklin would have arrived with the antidote in time to save them all in the Star Trek universe.

It's episodes like this one and Passing Through Gethsemene that made B5 stand out as unique.



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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

 

[bakana]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Has JMS ever written anything about his beliefs or how he defines atheism?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. He defines Athieism the same way everyone else does: He doesn't believe in God.

But, he Did read extensively About religion while coming to that conclusion, including reading the Entire Bible Front To Back.
Unlike 99% of the people who Do believe in God.

He also pointed out once that, just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean you don't have to make "spiritual" moral decisions about how to live your life.
In fact, it can be argued that, if there is no God, how you behave here and now is even More important because there is not going to be any "afterlife" where you can spend eternity apologising.
Best to live a life that doesn't Need apologies.



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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

 

[Galahad]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

Yeah but the Bible is not constructed in a manner that is best read cover to cover, if that were the case it would have been put in chronological order (some versions like this do exist).

Instead it is grouped as the Torah, the historical books, the wisdom books, the major prophets and the minor prophets, followed by the Gospels, and the Epistles and the funky pictures at the back!

And depending on where you get it there's the odd bit of Old and New Testament Apocrypha thrown in.

RE lesson over.

A lot of atheists I encounter tend to actually be humanists.

If JMS approach in B5 is anything to go by, there is a realist humanist theme running through. In B5 the human race has got the potential to achieve anything, but look how long it takes, and how many foul ups there were all along the way!

The only person who can truly label their belief is the individual who partakes in it, oh and of course God.

I'm waffling, I'll crawl back into my little wardrobe now!

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"We Live for the One. We die for the One!"

 

[Morden]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

"CaL" is a little boring, but the very end with Franklin was good.

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"Ink on a page." -Refa describing the moral depths of a treaty.

 

[hypatia]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jomar:
You're right about that. Franklin would have arrived with the antidote in time to save them all in the Star Trek universe.

It's episodes like this one and Passing Through Gethsemene that made B5 stand out as unique.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. And I still see "Passing Through Gethsemene" as being one of the best episodes EVER, any series, sci-fi or not.

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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

"I think I speak for Mr. Bloom and myself when I say: you are the only director in the World who can do justice to 'Springtime For Hitler' " - Zero Mostel, The Producers

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> I agree. And I still see "Passing Through Gethsemene" as being one of the best episodes EVER, any series, sci-fi or not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will second that statement. One thing I have always wondered about is that JMS is a professed atheist but there were quite a few stories in B5 that were very spiritual in nature. Has JMS ever written anything about his beliefs or how he defines atheism?

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[Vorlon]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> I agree. And I still see "Passing Through Gethsemene" as being one of the best episodes EVER, any series, sci-fi or not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> I will second that statement <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So do I.

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Understanding is a three edged sword.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

As an Atheist myself I would say that not beleiving in a god automaticly excludes all spiritiual beleifs, the universe is more complex then anyone can even guess at so the true nature of it may not exclude other forms of concousness or levels or even sublevels of awareness with in itself.

Thats why i love being an Atheist becouse my attempt to understand the Universe isnt restricted to the one size fits all classic teachings of mainstream religeons(I mean you accept there version or go somewhere else)

I'm not trying to bash the churchs here I just hate seeing people who walk through life never looking at the wonders it contains .

And on the seventh day mankind created God becouse 7 day working weeks really sucked

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[RW7427]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

Since this is turning into a religion thread, I'll quickly put my 2 cents worth in. I am a Christian. I believe in God and in the Bible, which is his word to man.

About the JMS atheist thing. I thought the correct term for someone like JMS is "agnostic". I think an atheist believes there is no God, but an agnostic believes there is one, but chooses not to believe in that God for himself. I have seen JMS show much of religion in B5, but more from a point like he's acknowledging it exists and that God exists, but that he does not believe in him personally. Am I correct in saying this or am I just hallucinating? If anyone has a clearer atheist/agnostic defintion and which one JMS actually is, feel free to let me know.

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The Whitestar Salad Bar, our last best hope for peace, and a good meal too!

 

[Kribu]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

I think that JMS has stated pretty clearly that he's an atheist, not an agnostic.

I personally feel that one can still be an atheist even when one acknowledges that there are plenty of things in the Universe that we just don't know enough about.

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"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge

 

[channe]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

To be an agnostic, you have to neither deny nor affirm the existence of an ultimate reality. Agnostics usually hold that any ultimate reality or ultimate consciousness (God) is unknowable for a human mind.

Believers say there is a God, and atheists say there is no God. Agnostics don't say anything either way.

JMS has said on numerous times that he, personally, does not believe there is a God.

And, when religion is mentioned, you can be damn sure that people are going to talk about it whether it be messageboard or real life. I've always been told that the few things you don't talk about when meeting someone new is religion or politics, and if you must, don't take a side immediately and try to stay middle-of-the-road.

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In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the grace of God.
-Aeschylus

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

Karanthas, I am an atheist, and I disagree with your statement that atheists cannot hold spiritual beliefs. In the context of B5, I believe that the Minbari fit this description. They do not believe in a supreme being, outside of the universe itself, and yet I would say that they are definitely spiritual. Zen and some other religions also fit this description. It is possible to believe in the supernatural, without believing in a supreme being. I think it is also possible to believe in science and the scientific method, and still believe that some of what we call supernatural actually could exist, but has not yet been proved, or explained in scientific terms. It is important to keep an open mind, even if you are not willing to accept things "on faith", as religion would have you accept God.

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You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

I had always assumed that if someone was an atheist then they did not believe in anything spiritual. Thus my confusion about JMS' belief structure.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> They do not believe in a supreme being, outside of the universe itself <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would say that believing in the universe itself as some kind of intelligent, sentient, entity is the same has believing in a single omnipotent god.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> In fact, it can be argued that, if there is no God, how you behave here and now is even More important because there is not going to be any "afterlife" where you can spend eternity apologising.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would have to completely disagree with the above statement. Without an afterlife there are no consequences for our actions, I do not think it makes how we behave here and now more important but rather irrelevent. If this life is all there is then in my opinion it is totally nihilistic.

Please do not take anything in this reply personally or as bashing. I just do not understand how believing in no afterlife makes our actions in this life more important.

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[GKarsEye]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

OK, let's get this straight: the root word "theo" refers to God or gods. Theism, then, is the belief in the existence of God or gods. A-theist mean "without belief in God / gods." An atheist does not believe in God or gods.

What does this mean about the person? Absolutely nothing. He/she can still belief in astrology, ghosts, Santa Claus, or Rapunzel. He/she can be an upstanding, brilliant pillar of the community, or a sleazy hedonsistic whore-monger.

Since the term "atheist" has been used to condemn people, and still is used that way, some philosopher in the 1890s came up with the term "agnostic." It's basically a coward's way out of calling yourself an atheist for fear of being attacked and looked down upon by theists.

Agnostic means "not knowing whether there is God or not," so the person can't declare his/her beliefs. I'm sorry, but this is silly. Everyone knows in their heart whether or not they believe in God. If you do, you're a theist, if not, atheist.

As far as JMS is concerned, I would argue that an educated, open-minded atheist may be more qualified to write about religion than one who practices a faith. The atheist is not clouded by any dogma or subjectivity towards a specific set of beliefs. The important thing is that JMS doesn't bare any animosity towards theists (it is a very large misconception about atheists that we all hate or resent believers- not true) and knows enough about religion to include it in his stories. More importantly, he understands the human condition, the human mind (the duty of a writer), of which faith is crucial. If one can write of death, love, and war, why not faith?

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[RW7427]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

Thanks all for your comments on the atheist/agnostic thing. It's a little clearer to me now.

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The Whitestar Salad Bar, our last best hope for peace, and a good meal too!

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impycat:


I would have to completely disagree with the above statement. Without an afterlife there are no consequences for our actions, I do not think it makes how we behave here and now more important but rather irrelevent. If this life is all there is then in my opinion it is totally nihilistic.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


OK, not sue if I can explain this properly but I'll do my best.

To me, the consequences are here and now. In this life, not the next. When I choose to act one way or another, never does the thought, "I must do this to be rewarded or punished in the next life" enter my head. I choose my own path based on what I believe to be wrong or right in the moment.



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The man was so fiiine, he could get any good girl into trouble…Can you guess what his name was?…Well…The Jackal...

 

[bakana]

Re: I\'m happy, sort of

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Without an afterlife there are no consequences for our actions, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try telling that to all the people sitting in various prisons around the world.

Or the people paying Alimony because they screwed up their marriages.

Or the smokers dying of Lung Cancer.

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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!