KoshN
Super Moderator
Nor was Protestant.
-
The new B5TV.COM is here. We've replaced our 16 year old software with flashy new XenForo install. Registration is open again. Password resets will work again. More info here.
Is JMS a Scientologist?
- Thread starter Cern
- Start date
Nor was Protestant.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Scientology does charge for their services, necessary to move higher in their religion. I've read estimates of $100,000 and higher, to "go clear," as far back as the 80s. It seems inescapable to me that to become an "operating Thetan" would cost a LOT these days. I've had three friends involved with Scientology. All got out and survived, but one had lasting emotional scars, the last time I saw her. This was her own declaration.
Jan
Regular
Thanks for some solid info, JJ. Yes, I've heard that Scientology is expensive. But then I also know of other religions who withdraw your membership if you don't 'support the Church' (Catholic and Lutheran from my own personal exprience) so I don't see that Scientology's all that different in that way from 'mainstream' religions. If they all do it, we know what they are, it's just a matter of dickering over the price.
But I think we're veering way off of the B5 rails here.
Jan
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Just continuing to define what JMS is not!
And yes, of course, Scientology is hardly the only avaricious religious org.
And, from what I learned from my friends, if you do not have the money, you can work for them. A couple I knew (girl one of 3 mentioned above) was given paintings to sell on street corners, in the Detroit area. They turned the procedes in to the Scientology org.
Last edited:
Galahad
Regular
I heard that originally Hubbard originally wrote an SF book about a religion being created purely as a commercial product and it was trashed by the critics as being preposterous an unrealistic. It was not long after this that Hubbard turned the idea on its head and actually created the "relifion".
Can anyone substantiate this?
If it is true, it is a twisted way to make a point... and a fast buck.
Can anyone substantiate this?
If it is true, it is a twisted way to make a point... and a fast buck.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Well, he did write a scifi book, before he founded his "religion," but I haven't read it, and haven't heard that the content is as you describe it, but you could check the wikipedia, it might know, well, if that entry isn't under the control of the Scientologists... I wonder?
Jade Jaguar
Regular
I checked the Wiki myself. It was NOT influenced by the Scientology org. Very interesting. I liked the part about the teen girls in white hot pants, serving him on his yacht in the Mediterranian!
Seems he was a prolific pulp writer, for years before he started his scam, uh... I mean his religion. He had written a lot of scifi, but I couldn't find any that was about creating religion as a commercial product. But, MANY people heard him claim that starting a religion was the best way to make money, and that turning a business into a religion solved a lot of problems. It was fascinating reading!
Seems he was a prolific pulp writer, for years before he started his scam, uh... I mean his religion. He had written a lot of scifi, but I couldn't find any that was about creating religion as a commercial product. But, MANY people heard him claim that starting a religion was the best way to make money, and that turning a business into a religion solved a lot of problems. It was fascinating reading!
GaribaldisHair
Regular
Various books I have read over the years ... but have since been passed onto Charity stores, so can't give exact names, authors etc. Here is a link to a recent BBC investigation into the matter ... although this quotes it as £100,000 which is getting on for $200k.
As a Christian I have made it a point to try and understand other faiths/religions by reading both positive and critical texts about them ... this was one of the points that was universally covered by those critical towards Scientology.
Because over the last 6 years I have gained a reputation on the board for just making stuff up, right?
GaribaldisHair
Regular
There is a difference between withdrawal of membership for not supporting the church financially (although my Catholic friends would dispute that this is a formalised practice of the church) and restricting knowledge of the higher teachings of the religion to those who pay large sums of money.
Sindatur
Regular
It is to them. What about a Televangelist who comes on and says he needs to collect "X" million dollars by a certain date or God will take him, or the phony Faith Healers you see on TV on Sunday mornings, or preachers who drive Lexus' and multi-million dollar homes, and have personal bank accounts just as large? Certainly it's not a religion for me, or a belief system I want to take part in, but, if they want to call themselves a religion, and their Faithful want to follow their "lunacy", who am I not to give them that respect by referring to it as Religion?
Sindatur
Regular
There is a well known myth/legend that Scientology as a religion was created on a bet (IE: Hubbard was dared). I tried to look it up on Snopes to see if they had a "True" or "False" for the myth, but, didn't get any matches.
Jan
Regular
GKarsEye
Regular
Some clarification on scientology:
Dianetics was written as an alternative to psychology. At the time (the 50s), the science was very new. We've all heard the horror stories of excessive reliance on Freud, shock treatments, lobotomy, and the horrid environments of some of the state-run mental institutions. Hubbard, like many at the time, had his reservations of the science.
When the psychiatric institutions refused to consider his "work" as real psychiatry, he became even more resentful of them. To this day, railing against psychiatry is one of the chief goals of Scientology (ie, remember Tom Cruise's various rants against prescription drugs).
Dianetics rejects the notion of mental illness, depression, etc. It rejects the idea that these things are due to chemical imbalances in the brain.
In other words, Dianetics is to psychiatry what Creationism is to biology.
Hubbard's idea is that we hear negative things at a very young age, including pre-birth (hence the silent birth practised by church members), and our brains store all of it and it infects our brains. These are the "thetans."
An adult then has to clear them from his brain by hooking up to an "e-meter" (a simple device that measurs changes in electric resistance in the body) while speaking with a supervisor (Scientology member, services paid for, of course). This is called auditing.
An auditee will go through many such sessions over a period of years. Ca-c$ing. Then eventually they're "clear," which means all the bad thetans are out of your brain and you're cured.
After being clear some go on to become an Operating Thetan, with stories of supernatural powers acquired. I remember reading an estimate of over $300,000 spent over something like 20 yrs to become an OTVIII, the highest level I believe. An OTVIII can fly and be invisible and such. Pretty sweet.
Anyway, since Hubbard couldn't get funding for any of his "research," he decided to make it a religion called Scientology in order to not have to pay taxes. The story of him declaring he can make a religion just to make money is either false or greatly exaggerated, since Dianetics came before Scientology and is its basis.
However, with a new religion, a new mythology needed to be created. He recognised that some people need some sort of supernatural story to go along with their lifestyle. This is where Xenu, the ancient inter-galactical warlord, comes in and blows up billions of people in earth's volcanos with H-bombs or something and their spirits are actually those nasty thetans in our brains. Supposedly, one only learns about this stuff as an Operating Thetan but it is public info now because there are ex-OTs who broke from the church and have exposed everthing because they were harrassed and abused the organisation.
Dianetics was written as an alternative to psychology. At the time (the 50s), the science was very new. We've all heard the horror stories of excessive reliance on Freud, shock treatments, lobotomy, and the horrid environments of some of the state-run mental institutions. Hubbard, like many at the time, had his reservations of the science.
When the psychiatric institutions refused to consider his "work" as real psychiatry, he became even more resentful of them. To this day, railing against psychiatry is one of the chief goals of Scientology (ie, remember Tom Cruise's various rants against prescription drugs).
Dianetics rejects the notion of mental illness, depression, etc. It rejects the idea that these things are due to chemical imbalances in the brain.
In other words, Dianetics is to psychiatry what Creationism is to biology.
Hubbard's idea is that we hear negative things at a very young age, including pre-birth (hence the silent birth practised by church members), and our brains store all of it and it infects our brains. These are the "thetans."
An adult then has to clear them from his brain by hooking up to an "e-meter" (a simple device that measurs changes in electric resistance in the body) while speaking with a supervisor (Scientology member, services paid for, of course). This is called auditing.
An auditee will go through many such sessions over a period of years. Ca-c$ing. Then eventually they're "clear," which means all the bad thetans are out of your brain and you're cured.
After being clear some go on to become an Operating Thetan, with stories of supernatural powers acquired. I remember reading an estimate of over $300,000 spent over something like 20 yrs to become an OTVIII, the highest level I believe. An OTVIII can fly and be invisible and such. Pretty sweet.
Anyway, since Hubbard couldn't get funding for any of his "research," he decided to make it a religion called Scientology in order to not have to pay taxes. The story of him declaring he can make a religion just to make money is either false or greatly exaggerated, since Dianetics came before Scientology and is its basis.
However, with a new religion, a new mythology needed to be created. He recognised that some people need some sort of supernatural story to go along with their lifestyle. This is where Xenu, the ancient inter-galactical warlord, comes in and blows up billions of people in earth's volcanos with H-bombs or something and their spirits are actually those nasty thetans in our brains. Supposedly, one only learns about this stuff as an Operating Thetan but it is public info now because there are ex-OTs who broke from the church and have exposed everthing because they were harrassed and abused the organisation.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Actually, those are "engrams." Thetans are the Scientology equivalent of souls, but screwed up ancient, dead, thetans can bleed engrams into living people...
Sindatur
Regular
Definitely agreed. From a purely psychological standpoint, I think Dianetics can actually train people to use their brains better, but, as a religion...
GKarsEye
Regular
The only proof of this is anecdotal, which of course is not proof at all.
Dianetics has absolutely zero scientific basis.
Jan
Regular
Psychology and psychiatry are hardly exact sciences, either, though. At least up to the point I read, Dianetics didn't seem any worse to me than the latest self-help book.
Jan
