JMS confirmation of ratings

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ala:


While it is certainly possible that a Rangers' series might get a 1.7, it's, also, certainly possible that the world will end tomorrow. If a show gets a 1.7 with a major media campaign behind it it is unlikely that it will continue to maintain that rating when the campaign goes off. That is true for any show.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is not true for any show is that it reaches an average of 1.7 against a major NFL playoff game, which was the point of the original post. So, while the advantage of the campaign might be gone, the disadvantage is as well.

------------------
If I tell you my name is Lorien, what good is that?

(Whatever happened to Mr. Garibaldi?)

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Replies to a bunch of messages all on the same general topic.

Lennier, I hadn't overlooked a series advertising itself. Certainly in channel flipping, people see something interesting and stay with it. One question will be whether Rangers achieved that successfully. One comment from my watching group is that they would not have done so for the pilot.

A good series,also, self-advertised (with some help from the Net) by generating buzz. That definitely serves even better than traditional advertising. Look at Survivors.

The question comes down to how much that buzz can contribute to a show like Rangers on a niche Net like SCIFI and can it be achieved at all for Rangers (note the reviews which did not help)?

Even good buzz is going to be much less than a Survivors. Look at the reality show done by the same producer for USA for a good example of the difference. I remember hearing him talk about having lower expectations for the show just because it was on USA.

Mind, there are occasional counters to this like Sopranos. Even then, the ratings for Sopranos aren't great compared to the 6-Nets. In the end, how much can that buzz be predicted and quantified?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Psi-gryphon:

Of course the ratings for the original series are down. It's in something like its 10th run, 3rd or 4th on Scifi alone, plus it's been moved to 5:00 (unless something's changed since I last checked). Even die hard fans (myself included) will stop watching every day when we've seen the episodes so many times. With a new series, it'd be new episodes rather than years old ones. There's really no comparing the two.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually many series do well in endless repeats. ER and ST (all the versions) come to mind. B5 does not. As JoeD pointed out, it was moved to 5 PM because it hasn't been doing well in the ratings rather than causing the ratings to go down.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Psi-gryphon:

Further, Scifi would promote a new series the same way (maybe a little less) they did for the pilot movie. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, what they did for Rangers was pretty big by SCIFI standards. Look at what they did when Chronicle or I-Man debuted. They have a new head of Marketing (post Chronicle and I-Man debuts) and a new ad agency (just announced; not in place for Rangers) now. That might change things.

Morgania, if you do a reply to a message, you get the text of the previous message in a quote form. Just carve out the parts not relevant to your message.

Imno, lots of shows got more than a 1.7 against Rangers and the sports.




------------------

 

[GaribaldiHairs]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
The funny thing is, football gets criticised for being too barbaric, then for being too soft for wearing protection.
*sigh*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Come one guys, get over that. Many people thinks this sport sucks (which can be true), and many people thinks this sport rule (which can be true).

The true answer? We don't care !!! We are currently in a B5LR forum

- Garibaldi's Hairs
(who by the way think hockey rule the most)




------------------
"You are all in violation of security ordinance 22V3A. That means get the hell out of here!
"
- Zack

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ranger32:
So, even if this wasn't what was expected, Sci Fi should realize that if it goes to series, it would probably get at least 1.7 weekly (if not higher when not up against football). That would be good ratings for the channel.

Besides, I think that the 3.6 it got on the west coast would have only applied to the movie because it was so well-advertised. A weekly series probably wouldn't get a 3.6 because it wouldn't have as much advertising behind it and some people would just sample the pilot and maybe not come back for the weekly show (although most diehard B5 fans would watch every week).

So, Sci Fi should realize that a 1.7 MIGHT be what the weekly series would get anyway, which would be good for them. Here's hoping.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, to quote JMS correctly, he said that Rangers got "a 3.2 or
3.6 in many markets" [on the west coast feed] not that the show got a 3.6 on the west coast feed.

While it is certainly possible that a Rangers' series might get a 1.7, it's, also, certainly possible that the world will end tomorrow. If a show gets a 1.7 with a major media campaign behind it it is unlikely that it will continue to maintain that rating when the campaign goes off. That is true for any show.

SCIFI can't count on only B5 fans to give it ratings. That's not enough to make the kind of numbers they had last season on Friday or Saturday nights no less those they'd want in the future. Remember, B5 was down in the .5 areas in recent times. A progam needs to maintain and, hopefully, enlarge the Network's audience.

I'm not saying Rangers shouldn't or won't go to series but it's useful to ground our enthusiasms in business reality.
This is a business decision and SCIFI will look at it from that perspective. Will Rangers bring them the ratings and related advertising money to sustain their growth and brand? If the answer appears to be "likely" then SCIFI will negotiate a deal with Warners.

------------------

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Ala wrote:

...it is unlikely that it will continue to maintain that rating when the campaign goes off.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Something you may have overlooked: unlike a stand-alone movie, a continuing television show acts as its own advertisement. If the last part was good, it served as a powerful episode-length advertisement for the next part.

------------------
"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited January 31, 2002).]

 

[GaribaldisHair]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>- Garibaldi's Hairs
(who by the way think hockey rule the most)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh no ... something else we have in common.

This is getting scary.

------------------
DaveC
"Let me be the first to say that this is the nuttiest idea you've ever had."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:

Yes, Rugby players don't wear protection. It's their problem if they want to get hurt all the time. Besides, rugby players don't leap into the air to catch balls while other guys are hitting them in the ribs.
*sigh*

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm, sorry. I disagree. Take Australian Rules Footbal - they get hammered all of the time - in the ribs. Same as Australian Rugby League. At the end of a teams 'five', most of the time, the ball is pitched into the air. The person that catches it gets completely hammered, whilst still in the air.

And they do not want to get hurt, it's a requirement of the code to forfeit huge amounts of protection, just as its a requirement for American Footbal players to wear 'forty pounds of protection' Some Rugby players do wear some form of protection - only it is very light.

Raptor


------------------
"To live is to risk"
Lenonn - ItB

[This message has been edited by Raptor (edited February 01, 2002).]

 

[Morgania]

Morgania, if you do a reply to a message, you get the text of the previous message in a quote form. Just carve out the parts not relevant to your message.

Oh No! This is obviously not the way to get those nice quotes included in a current post. Please excuse my computer ignorance. Would someone explain to me how to do it step by small step. I would appreciate it.

Now for my comment - didn't B5 do well in the ratings during it's initial and 2nd run on SFC? Wouldn't those ratings be sufficient to support a new series?

------------------

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Morgania:
Oh No! This is obviously not the way to get those nice quotes included in a current post. Please excuse my computer ignorance. Would someone explain to me how to do it step by small step. I would appreciate it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


1. Click on the thrid icon to the right of the date of the post. It's Reply with Quote.

2. It'll put the post in quotes, up to but not including any qouted material in that post.

3. If you want to quote stuff above that point, just highlight it when reading the post and copy it. Then click on Reply with Quote icon, and paste it in there.

Alternatively you can manually do it by putting the following around the stuff you want to quote:

(QUOTE)Originally posted by Name:
(B)

and

(/B)(/QUOTE)

where you replace the parenthesis marks "()" with brackets "[]".

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Morgania:
Now for my comment - didn't B5 do well in the ratings during it's initial and 2nd run on SFC? Wouldn't those ratings be sufficient to support a new series?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It should be sufficient, but they are more concerned with how B5 reruns are doing now. This is what, the 3rd or 4th time they've been stripped on Sci-Fi, and that followed what 2 or 3 times on TNT. Of course, the ratings would drop. Most people have all of B5 on tape by now.

I have 100% of TNT's first run on tape, Hi-Grade tape on SP. I watch the Sci-Fi reruns sometime, but I'm really waiting for the DVDs. I have all of the Laserdiscs that were produced by Image. If Image had completed the set, I probably would not get the DVDs unless the DVDs had lots of extras. The Laserdiscs didn't have as much of the live action, since they were 4:3 (not widescreen), but they had better CGI (no top and bottom cropping of the CGI).

B5 and Crusade Made Available on Laserdisc

Released, Possible, Percentage
Babylon 5 Movies, 2, 5, 40.00%
Babylon 5 Season 1 Episodes, 22, 22, 100.00%
Babylon 5 Season 2 Episodes, 12, 22, 54.55%
Babylon 5 Season 3 Episodes, 0, 22, 0.00%
Babylon 5 Season 4 Episodes, 6, 22, 27.27%
Babylon 5 Season 5 Episodes, 22, 22, 100.00%
Crusade Episodes, 0, 13, 0.00%
Sum, 64, 128, 50.00%

Unfortunately 48 B5 Episodes and 3 B5 Movies were not released on Laserdisc. Image stopped short by 27 Laserdiscs.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/


[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited February 01, 2002).]

 

[bakana]

The easier way to do Quotes is to:

A. Highlight and Copy the text you want to quote. (it can be from a post on this board, or something from another site or document open in another window)

B. Click on the Post Reply button.

C. On the Left side of the Reply box, just under the Smilie Icons, look for the word QUOTE.
That's a Button. Click on it and the Quote tags will be inserted in the box.

D. Paste the text you wish to quote between the begn/end quote tags.


You can also click on the Smilies to insert them in the box.
Any of the smilies or tags you click on will be inserted at the End of the current reply, regarless of where the Cursor is positioned.
If that isn't where you Need it, just cut and paste within the box.

Note: the Smilies will Not look like smilies in the Reply box.
They get translated into Smilies when the message is READ later.

Enjoy.


------------------
Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[Quagmire]

Having played both rugby and football(the real kind, not soccer) I can tell you they are both extrememly physical games but have some differences in the kind of hits involved. Football is more likely to have the big hit. The padding does protect you some but it also gives enough increased security to throw your body around with abandon. You are much more likely to see a decleater in a football game. Football is a game of field position and sacrificing yourself to keep someone from getting an extra yard is often the smart thing to do. Football can be viewed as a series of sprints, giving your all for each play.

Rugby is more of a marathon. Often you have to hold back some at times in order to be most effective. The fact that rugby is a game of possesion also changes some things. Taking someone down in such a way that you can pop back up and grab the ball can be more usefull when you're isolated than a big hit. You are also much more likely to use a players own momentum to take them down, especially backs, since that extra meter is not that important. Rugby however has more of other forms of violence. I cheat much more playing rugby than I ever did in football. Anyone who knows what booting is knows what I mean. There is no blocking so you don't have the steady contact but it's harder to see into a ruck so you can get away with more.

------------------
"Crying isn't gonna get your dog back. Unless your tears smell like dog food. So you can sit here eating can after can of dog food until your tears smell like dog food or you can go out there and find your dog."-Homer in The Canine Mutiny

 

[sassy]

ok this may be a dumb question, but did sci fi include the DOUBLE VIEWING of rangers..and the TRIPLE viewing of rangers on SUNDAY?

------------------
Remember folks, you to can be another victim! contributed by DW.

 

[EntilSedai]

about the football game:
I know it took away some b5 fans but the bigger hit most likely came from the:
"this movie looks interesting..whats that..snow bowl?.. close game?...click[changes channel before movie starts]"
type of veiwers.
also, as people got bored of the novelty, they switched back(to get the increasing ratings per period)

this is plausible, right?
and as such, should the (eastern) ratings reflect the b5 fan base, basically what can be expected at minumum, and higher due to the sttraction of new fans?

CR

------------------

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doctor Gonzo:
Having played both rugby and football(the real kind, not soccer) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The real kind? The REAL kind? How is it real when they barely ever use their feet to play?

Anyway, you're both historically and numerically voted down

------------------
If I tell you my name is Lorien, what good is that?

(Whatever happened to Mr. Garibaldi?)

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sassy:
ok this may be a dumb question, but did sci fi include the DOUBLE VIEWING of rangers..and the TRIPLE viewing of rangers on SUNDAY?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who knows? I tried to find out, but Nielsen won't even SELL me the info.

Here's what I asked for {names deleted to protect the innocent

}:


What I sent to Nielsen Rep #1:

I'm contacting you about this because I don't know who else to contact in
Nielsen.

Would it be possible for a member of the general public, like myself, to buy
from Nielsen, the ratings figures for a particular TV show (a pilot)? It
aired three times (two encores), and I'd like to know how all three airings
did in all US markets, including the quarter hour figures if possible.
Also, how much would this cost?

The pilot was "To Live And Die in Starlight" and was the pilot for Babylon
5 - The Legend of the Rangers. It aired on The Sci-Fi Channel at the
following times:
01/19/2002, 9PM-11PM Eastern
01/19/2002, 11PM-1AM Eastern
01/20/2002, 5PM-7PM Eastern.



Response by Nielsen Rep. #1:

The Nielsen Media Research information you've requested is only available to
our clients. Our customers -- television networks and stations, cable
networks and systems, program syndicators, advertising agencies and
advertisers -- use that data to make their business decisions about program
schedules and ad rates.

If you are interested in possibly becoming a client, I need to know more
about your company and what specifically you require before I can forward
your request to the appropriate marketing group. Please let me know if you
are interested in purchasing local or national data and how you plan to use
the data. Also, the name of your company, and where you are located in the
U.S. would be helpful. If you would be able to help me understand these
details, I'll be happy to direct your inquiry to an account representative.

Thanks,



My reply to Nielsen Rep. #1:

> The Nielsen Media Research information you've requested is only available
to
> our clients. Our customers -- television networks and stations, cable
> networks and systems, program syndicators, advertising agencies and
> advertisers -- use that data to make their business decisions about
program
> schedules and ad rates.
>
> If you are interested in possibly becoming a client, I need to know more
> about your company

I'm not a "company" but rather just a private party who is curious about
some specific data, and is willing to pay for it.

> and what specifically you require before I can forward
> your request to the appropriate marketing group. Please let me know
> if you are interested in purchasing local or national data and how you
> plan to use the data.

I wanted *all* the data you have on the *three airings* of this particular
TV pilot, nothing else.

The show was "To Live And Die in Starlight" and was the pilot for Babylon
5 - The Legend of the Rangers. It aired on The Sci-Fi Channel at the
following times:
01/19/2002, 9PM-11PM Eastern / 6PM-8PM Pacific
01/19/2002, 11PM-1AM Eastern / 8PM-10PM Pacific
01/20/2002, 5PM-7PM Eastern / 2PM-3PM Pacific

It got hammered in the east by a NFL playoff game.
From what I hear, it did well in the west. I was curious how it did both
locally, in the major markets around the country, and it's national number.

What are the restrictions on my use of the information?


> Also, the name of your company, and where you are located in the
> U.S. would be helpful.

Ambridge, PA USA (~15 miles northwest of Pittsburgh, PA)



Response from Nielsen Rep. #1:


Please give me a call at ###-###-#### so I can help you with your request.

Thanks,



Simultaneous Response from Nielsen Rep. #2:

your request was forwarded to me since I handle all outside requests for
data from non-clients and I'm sorry to say that these data are not available
to you. We do not sell data to people not having business in the industry
and do not provide data to outside public except for what is available on
our website. I'm sure you can understand that we would do nothing all day
but fill requests from the general public because they are curious on what a
specific program has done recently and in the past. When we have to go back
to our analysis dept. to stop everything an provide these data then they are
not performing their function which is to service our customers.

Thank you for your understanding


My response to Nielsen Rep. #1:

I was already turned down (see note below). I can't even
pay for this data. Evidently the members of the public aren't allowed to
know, even if they would pay for the data.



I didn't call because of what Nielsen Rep. #2 said, and I don't want to get Nielsen Rep. #1 in hot water. So, that's where I dropped it.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/



[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited February 08, 2002).]

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EntilSedai:
about the football game:
I know it took away some b5 fans but the bigger hit most likely came from the:
"this movie looks interesting..whats that..snow bowl?.. close game?...click[changes channel before movie starts]"
type of veiwers.
also, as people got bored of the novelty, they switched back(to get the increasing ratings per period)

this is plausible, right?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anything is possible. The interesting thing is that researchers at SciFi have two reports available from Nielsen that can test any hypothesis:

1. Minute-by-minute ratings: Can track the build of a show minute-by-minute, showing viewers arriving and leaving.
2. "Source and destination" report: shows what channel viewers came from and what channel viewers switch to when they leave.

------------------

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KoshN:
I wanted *all* the data you have on the *three airings* of this particular
TV pilot, nothing else.

I was already turned down (see note below). I can't even
pay for this data. Evidently the members of the public aren't allowed to
know, even if they would pay for the data.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this really shocking?

Think about it from a company's perspective. They have a structure that has been set up to deal with a set number of clients who have longterm contracts. Their customer service department, billing department, everything is set up this way. Reps are assigned to specific clients and many of them can get backlogged with work from those clients.

If they wanted to sell to individuals, it would involve a totally different set-up. A massive customer service department would have to be built. New billing and invoicing procedures would have to be created. Corporate re-structuring.

BTW--even if you were an ad agency, the national ratings and local ratings come from two different departments and require two different contracts.

Another thing is that their clients have to sign contracts where they are bound to limited use of the data themselves. An advertising agency's contract states they can only divulge the data:

1. To their own organization
2. To their clients
3. To their prospective clients
4. To broadcast and cable networks who also subscribe
5. To syndicators, program producers, talent agents, and artists serving or negotiating with the Agency

Sometimes these rules are broken, but Nielsen is not pleased.

I'm curious what price you would have been willing to pay for the data.



------------------

 

[Quagmire]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Irmo:
The real kind? The REAL kind? How is it real when they barely ever use their feet to play?

Anyway, you're both historically and numerically voted down

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The numbers are meaningless. Only Americans count

------------------
"Crying isn't gonna get your dog back. Unless your tears smell like dog food. So you can sit here eating can after can of dog food until your tears smell like dog food or you can go out there and find your dog."-Homer in The Canine Mutiny

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SavantB5:
Is this really shocking?

Think about it from a company's perspective. They have a structure that has been set up to deal with a set number of clients who have longterm contracts. Their customer service department, billing department, everything is set up this way. Reps are assigned to specific clients and many of them can get backlogged with work from those clients.

If they wanted to sell to individuals, it would involve a totally different set-up. A massive customer service department would have to be built. New billing and invoicing procedures would have to be created. Corporate re-structuring.

BTW--even if you were an ad agency, the national ratings and local ratings come from two different departments and require two different contracts.

Another thing is that their clients have to sign contracts where they are bound to limited use of the data themselves. An advertising agency's contract states they can only divulge the data:

1. To their own organization
2. To their clients
3. To their prospective clients
4. To broadcast and cable networks who also subscribe
5. To syndicators, program producers, talent agents, and artists serving or negotiating with the Agency

Sometimes these rules are broken, but Nielsen is not pleased.

I'm curious what price you would have been willing to pay for the data.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They should already have the data laying around in a database somewhere. All they should have to do is to extract it to a report.

I have no idea what it would have cost, but it shouldn't have been more than a few hundred dollars, especially since I was asking for very little data (only the three airings of this one pilot).



------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel

http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[bakana]

Yes, they already have it "laying around in a database somewhere".

And they also have a Lot of people constantly accessing that database, updating it, backing it up and printing reports that people pay them Thousands of dollars for.

Chances are, particularly in the current business climate, that evey Minute of computer time they've got is scheduled.

Besides, most companies figure programming time for ad hoc reports costs them a couple thousand an hour.
Figure it takes them an hour or so to get some manager to decide to Approve the request and pass it on to a programmer.
Then, the Programmer has to check to see just what data is being requested, check out Where in the database it is located, code the request, submit it to the computer and have someone locate the printout in the mountain of Other "small" reports.
Then, the Programmer has to pass it back to whatever secretary has been assigned to mail the report back and make sure the Bill is either Credit Worthy or has already been paid.

By the time the 5 or 6 people involved in this have all gotten thru, a full day has passed.
And, that's assuming none of them was so snowed under with Other work that each of them "jumped right on it".

The Programmer is probably backed up a couple weeks at least.
The manager probably has a policy of not looking at anything on his desk that didn't originate with His boss for at least a Week.
And then he "thinks" about it for another week. Managers hate making "Hasty" decisions.


I can easily see why Nielson wouldn't want to get into the "Ad Hoc" data business.
It would be a nightmare.

Plus, they'd run the risk of people buying reports, (Maybe altering them) and presenting the (maybe falsified) data to people whom Nielson would prefer to have as Direct Clients.

One of the things to note in Neilson's reply is that they request All their customers to keep the data they receive Confidential.

Gee, you think maybe they prefer to be the Only source of Neilson Reports??



------------------
Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."