JMS update on Lost Tales/Feature

[KoshN]

It's called arrogance, being a control freak, and not being willing to trust anyone else to actually tell a good story.

Bull. He was going to leave Crusade open to more writers.

To be perfectly honest if JMS honestly believes the writing was hamstrung because of a lack of funds then that doesn't say much about him as a writer.

More bull. People (B5 and Crusade fans) expected B5:TLT to be on the same level as B5 and Crusade, as if those shows had never stopped, as if all the sets, wardrobe, CGI, props, crew, etc. was still on hand. Well guess what? It isn't, mainly thanks to Warner Brothers. All those nice, new, elaborate sets they built for Crusade after the initial work stoppage, gone. DESTROYED.

Great writers are able to work around things like budget and still put out wonderful works.

That works if you're going to have two people in a room, talking, but not if what's expected is B5 & Crusade episodes as those shows had never shutdown, and all their stuff lost, destroyed or sold off.

Good writers try to work around the budget, have problems with it and this the product ends up being less than stellar. Bad writers complain about the budget and say it hurts their ability to tell a story.

Your arguments are simplistic and do not take into account the realities of what happened to all the stuff that existed when B5 and Crusade were being shot, that no longer exists today. All that stuff needs to be remade, or else you're not going to have episodes that are up to the quality of what has gone before. You can't blame that on the writer. The blame for that falls squarely on shortsighted Warner Brothers.

Now, I'm not saying JMS is bad, but the idea that a budget hurts your ability to tell a story is laughable, as is the idea that somehow more money being thrown at B5 will make the stories better.

Do you even hear yourself? Budget does not hurt the ability to tell a story, IF you're writing novels, where you can make anything up. Describe it and there it is. You didn't have to have anybody build the sets. Describe 'em and poof, they're there. However, on TV, in the movies or in Direct-to-DVD, you need money for things like sets, CGI, wardrobe, extras, B5 and/or Crusade actors, etc. If you have a budget for four walls, a couple of chairs, one or two existing B5 or Crusade stars, a couple of minor guest stars and a couple of extras, there isn't much you can do to make something look like it fits in with existing B5 and Crusade epsodes, which is what the fans expected.

 

[KoshN]

Eight consecutive posts? That's gotta be a record for a non-spambot.

These are the first I've posted in about 10 months.

 

[KoshN]

JMS has all the tools he needs to tell a great story, he is asking for better and more expensive tools as if that would somehow create a better story. A better analogy to what JMS is doing would be if he were a painter with a great brush that all of a sudden decides that he needs the next best brush or he can't work at all. It's ludicrous, just as is the idea that JMS can't tell another story in the B5 verse unless it is a huge money project. Huge money does not mean it will be good, nor does low money mean it will be bad. A good story is a good story and they flow from a writer regardless of the financial situation he finds himself in.

He's asking for the same tools he had 10 years ago, only WB won't make those tools available. They say "Here's some chewing gum, string and bailing wire. Have at it"

However an arrogant writer that has somehow developed the idea that his shit doesn't stink will blame everything on money issues instead of his ability to continue to tell compelling and gripping stories within his own creation. Or he will blame money instead his inability to actually trust other people to somehow be on the same level as he is, because I'm sure there aren't any writers out there capable of penning the putrid shit that was Infection, Survivors, The War Prayer, the recent Spider-Man, etc.. I'm still a fan of JMS, but in this case I do believe his arrogance has knocked him down quite a few pegs in my book and has made me wonder just how good of a writer he actually is when the chips are down.

And a fan with his head in the sand will ignore the facts, because he can't see them.

 

[KoshN]

I'm surprised that he didn't mention a possible new TV show.A big budget movie sounds great but I doubt that the studio will ever give 20-30 million dollars for a single B5 film, although it may have a huge success not only among fans.On the other hand a TV show season can be done for about the same amount of money and still look professional.

There is no outlet for a B5 universe TV show. If NBC/Universal owned B5, then yes, it could go on Sci-Fi or even USA. Since Warner Brothers owns B5,it has nowhere to go:

TNT: No way.
The CW: Wrong demo. Nothing but kiddies there.

 

[KoshN]

... and no more filming in a goddamned hot tub factory in the valley!

I bet he now looks back on that as the good ol' days, back when they had sets, wardrobe, props, cast, extras, crew, the 5 years worth of CGI they built up, etc.

I for one was never really excited about "Lost Tales" because 20 minutes does not often a great story make, but when all they had to film with was two rooms and a 20 foot section of hallway with 15 extras standing around, you have to admit it looked cheap as hell.

15 extras??? They had more like 3 or 4!

 

[KoshN]

Watch out ladies and gentlemen, that ego is so large that gravitational tides are shifting, and we may end up in a collision with another planet.

Agreed! And he said JMS is arrogant? JMS has nothing on him in that dept.

 

[KoshFan]

These are the first I've posted in about 10 months.

I had noticed you were being a bit quiet -- but 10 months? Really?

 

[KoshN]

I had noticed you were being a bit quiet -- but 10 months? Really?

Yeah, prior to yesterday (August 26, 2008), the last time I posted on B5TV at all was October 8th 2007, at 18:29, in Non-B5 books, TV & films. The last time I posted in my usual B5 areas here was October 1st 2007, at 16:14. If you want to be nicky-picky, it was 10.84 and 10.61 months, respectively.

 

[KoshFan]

Making up for lost time, then... I'm just impressed you had the stamina to read the entire thread, and then reply point by point.

 

[KoshN]

Making up for lost time, then... I'm just impressed you had the stamina to read the entire thread, and then reply point by point.

Notice how late I stayed up? Luckily I had the chance to sleep in.

 

[Zarto]

Wow impressive indeed and good points.

 

[Cell]

More bull. People (B5 and Crusade fans) expected B5:TLT to be on the same level as B5 and Crusade, as if those shows had never stopped, as if all the sets, wardrobe, CGI, props, crew, etc. was still on hand. Well guess what? It isn't, mainly thanks to Warner Brothers. All those nice, new, elaborate sets they built for Crusade after the initial work stoppage, gone. DESTROYED.

I'm not one of those people. I knew beforehand all the sets were gone, and the sets aren't the point. The point is that even if those sets had been around the story that JMS tried to tell in TLT was a weak one, that's why it didn't work. The sets have next to nothing to do with the story that was told, if he had delivered two people in a room talking within the B5 universe and it was good, I would have praised it as such, but he didn't. He delivered a subpar product, the budget, or lack of one, had nothing to do with that.

That works if you're going to have two people in a room, talking, but not if what's expected is B5 & Crusade episodes as those shows had never shutdown, and all their stuff lost, destroyed or sold off.

And where did I say I was expecting a B5 or Crusade episode? I was expecting a good story period, whether it was two people in a room talking or a full cast of characters I didn't care as long as I received a good story, but JMS failed to deliver a good story.

Your arguments are simplistic and do not take into account the realities of what happened to all the stuff that existed when B5 and Crusade were being shot, that no longer exists today. All that stuff needs to be remade, or else you're not going to have episodes that are up to the quality of what has gone before. You can't blame that on the writer. The blame for that falls squarely on shortsighted Warner Brothers.

All that stuff doesn't matter one iota if the story is strong enough to be worth anything. That's what you don't seem to understand, big lavish sets and money galore being tossed into the project are added extras, they are not the core of what makes something like TLT good. A great story is a great story regardless of what the sets are or how many extras are on screen. The same is true of an average or subpar story. The blame for TLT not being good doesn't fall on WB at all. Sure, it would have been nice if they would have contributed more money and there would have been some better window dressing as a result. But, the reality of the situation is that even with all the window dressing in the world the stories that JMS told in TLT weren't good. The blame for TLT not being good falls on his shoulders for telling a lackluster and subpar story.

Do you even hear yourself? Budget does not hurt the ability to tell a story, IF you're writing novels, where you can make anything up. Describe it and there it is. You didn't have to have anybody build the sets. Describe 'em and poof, they're there. However, on TV, in the movies or in Direct-to-DVD, you need money for things like sets, CGI, wardrobe, extras, B5 and/or Crusade actors, etc. If you have a budget for four walls, a couple of chairs, one or two existing B5 or Crusade stars, a couple of minor guest stars and a couple of extras, there isn't much you can do to make something look like it fits in with existing B5 and Crusade epsodes, which is what the fans expected.

Actually, as Comes the Inquisitor and Intersections In Real Time showed you don't need a ton of CGI, actors, or sets for a story to fit within the B5 universe. What you need is good storytelling, and TLT didn't have much of that. If people went into TLT expecting an exact replica of an episode of B5 then that's all their fault, because it should have been obvious from the get-go that TLT was going to be something different. It could have been something great had JMS delivered a story that was great. But, he didn't anbd we were left with a subpar product. Toss all the money in the world at the script that JMS turned in and the direction that he used and you would still be left with a subpar product. Like I said earlier, great storytelling works on any medium, and great storytelling would have worked in TLT, it's too bad we didn't get any.

 

[Jan]

Actually, as Comes the Inquisitor and Intersections In Real Time showed you don't need a ton of CGI, actors, or sets for a story to fit within the B5 universe.

But as "Comes the Inquisitor" and "Intersections in Real Time" also show, there are severe limits on what kinds of stories you can tell with the 'two people in a room' motif and it boils down those people in a room not doing much but talking. That's very close to what we got in the first segment if you think about it.

Neither of those two could have been told nearly as effectively without all of the backstory already known to the audience.

Frankly, since I heard the two million dollar figure I've been *astounded* at what we got for the money. No, you don't need "a ton of CGI, actors, or sets" but it would certainly be nice not to have to choose between a sequence in a starfury and a scene with extras and a few stunts and I don't think it's unreasonable for JMS to be able to command budgets that allow him to tell the stories that he *wants* to rather than the stories that he's limited to.

Jan

 

[Recoil]

Bloody Hell!

KoshN: Gone for 10 months and making up for lost time with a vengeance. A couple back to back 8 posts in a row, with multiple quotes per post. Back in true form!

 

[fisheggs]

:bolian:

When it comes to B5, they're cheap, tight,skinflints, people who would make Jack Benny look like a big tipping philanthropist.

:bolian: Welcome home.:bolian:

 

[A_M_Swallow]

The budget for direct to DVD will be similar to the budget for a TV episode because they have similar audiences.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

CAUTION: KoshN has returned!

Welcome back.

 

[KoshN]

CAUTION: KoshN has returned!

"CAUTION: KoshN... "

Welcome back.

Haven't left again. Got House Seasosn 4 (Watched Disc #1 yesterday.Hard to stop.), The Sarah Conner Chronicles Season 1, and still haven't watched the BSG S3 Disc 2 that I got on August 27th from Netflix! I usually return the Netflix DVD the same day. Man, am I slipping! Other than that, I've been working and catching upon some sleep.

I'll be back to this thread with more on-topic replies, soon.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

"CAUTION: KoshN... "

.

Well, I am fond of puns...
Some years ago, I asked you if you intended this pun, in picking your name. You replied that you did not.

 

[vacantlook]

Well, I am fond of puns...

I am too (I enjoy the Xanth series, for example), but my slow middle of the night mind took reading you say it was one before I realized it. It's great though. [applause]