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Rangers Series?!?!

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>PsionTen said:
I agree with you on one thing, this argument has been done to death. It seems utterly pointless to debate matters of taste and style, but unless you are a feverent JMS supporter, you must realize that there were problems with B5LR. There were also problems with Thirdspace, River of Souls and The Gathering, but let's not get into that now. Why is it whenever somebody gives a negative opinion of B5LR that people rack their brains trying to come up with excuses<hr></blockquote>
As you say, it's pointless to debate matters of taste. Which is why you should also accept that some people genuinely enjoyed B5LR, with all its flaws - sure there were some, but you know what? They didn't distract me one bit. Probably because I had absolutely no expectations by the time I saw it, so I took it for what it was (or what I perceive it to be) - a pleasant and enjoyable space action/adventure with plenty of good characters and nice little hints about the future.

And no, not everyone who liked B5LR (or Crusade for that matter, or Thirdspace - which I have come to prefer to In the Beginning which to me was boring) has to be a "feverent JMS supporter". I've never exactly hidden my opinion that I didn't like a lot of B5 - once the DVDs are out, I'll probably end up using the FF button a lot in at least 90 episodes out of the 110. It was the overall result and the feel of the series plus *some* truly outstanding characters and storylines that made me a fan, but if I were to nitpick, I'd find plenty I didn't like or downright hated in it. But those were details, it's not that important in the big picture.

You are more than welcome to think B5LR reeked, but please understand that people can disagree and it has nothing to with thinking JMS is a god or whatever. So maybe you would think I have bad taste for liking B5LR, Crusade and Thirdspace - I have no problem with that.

As for whether there will be a series - frankly, I'm not all that optimistic now as I was before the premiere or even right after seeing the movie. But I do think there is still some hope left, if not with SciFi then perhaps some other station. Because I also happen to think, like many others here, that JMS would have said something if there's no chance in hell to get the series in the foreseeable future - sure, he might make all sorts of excuses for it, and he might not declare it "dead" but simply not happening at this time, but he has been pretty open about these things before, saying something once there is something more or less definite to say.

If there are still negotiations going on, there is still hope. If the negotiations fall through and there will be no series, fine - you can't always get what you want. But I expect that once this happens, we will know - especially as JMS seems to have moved on to several other projects, it shouldn't be *that* difficult for him to say that at least for now, there won't be a series, once he's got a negative answer from SciFi and any other networks/channels that might be interested.
 
B5LR has the potential to rival the big guys and be one of the best science fiction shows on television - today or yesterday. There are enough plotlines in that rustbucket of a ship to fill any number of seasons. B5LR has the potential to be even more complicated than its parent show, for heaven's sakes, more accessible, and damned *interesting* to boot. I can tell that from the production design, some of the story, and the characters in the pilot. But there were problems - I'll agree with PsionTen on that point, definitely, even though I am a fervent JMS supporter.

Yes, there were many problems with the episode, but I generally enjoyed it very much. HOWEVER - it was not up to par with what I've seen in the Jeremiah pilot. I'm not talking money, I'm not talking production values, I'm not talking actors - I'm talking plain and simple tight dialogue and the way the story drew me in. The Rangers script wasn't on par with what JMS has been able to do in the past. IMHO, of course. I'm just a fan that happens to enjoy literary criticism (any professional's worst enemy).

Gah. Somebody just throw me a bone so I can be happy and chew on something else. Need... bone...
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by channe:
<font color=yellow>Gah. Somebody just throw me a bone so I can be happy and chew on something else. Need... bone... </font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
*sigh* If only this was a different forum. I hate having to restrain myself. /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif
 
Regarding the loss of the CGI files, here's part of what I posted in
<a target="_blank" href=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SavCrusade2x/message/6005>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SavCrusade2x/message/6005</a>

My stuff's in <font color=orange>orange</font color=orange>. Talking about TLaDiS:

> ><font color=orange>Postpone, find the CGI, and save money.</font color=orange>
>
> You're assuming that the CGI archives were there to find.

<font color=orange>If they're not, somebody should be shot.</font color=orange>


> The tone of
> jms post seemed more like they were confirmed as lost.

<font color=orange>I don't get the impression that anybody did any serious looking, and
that Warner Brothers doesn't give a damn, like they consider
B5/Crusade/Rangers as one notch above worthless, and gave the stuff
to some secretary's 5 year old kid to file, and the kid doesn't
remember where he put 'em, or Warner Brothers destroyed all the stuff
in a housecleaning and doesn't want to fess-up to it.</font color=orange>
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> You are more than welcome to think B5LR reeked, but please understand that people can disagree and it has nothing to with thinking JMS is a god or whatever. So maybe you would think I have bad taste for liking B5LR, Crusade and Thirdspace - I have no problem with that.
<hr></blockquote>

I never said that people couldn't disagree with me -- why would I say that when my opinion is obviously in the minority, at least on this board anyways. It's no secret that there are some heavy-duty JMS fans on this board and probably even some that probably do worship the guy, its a free country after all. The only point that I was trying to make, very simply, is that even if you are a big JMS booster, you have to recognize that this movie had its faults. Personally, I think the movie really did reek, but that's me. I also think that A.I. is one of the best sci-fi movies of all time, go figure.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>it was not up to par with what I've seen in the Jeremiah pilot. <hr></blockquote>

And I would agree with you. JMS is doing some serious story-telling in Jeremiah, utterly captivating. Why he couldn't do the same with Rangers, I have no idea.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by KoshN:
<font color=yellow>

Regarding Crusade and Rangers, I don't really have any faith that Sci-Fi will get behind either of them, certainly not in a time period that will work for the actors. Sci-Fi's been far too sporadic in what they pick up and what they drop. They pick up trash, and drop good stuff (much like most networks this year; it's been a really bad year). It seems like new good stuff just has a hard time catching on, and utter crap sells like hotcakes. Well, there's no accounting for taste.

</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

There are two parties in every negotiation and, for all we know, SciFi has always had an offer on the table for what they would pay for a Rangers series and it was Warner Brothers that has said "no" to that offer.

We just don't know, but JMS mentioned this in a post a while back about how SciFi likes to pay low and WB tries to charge high. I think he was giving us a strong hint of the nature of the negotiations.

I think SciFi would be interested in any series if it was offered to them at a price they can accept. That's how Black Scorpion got on air.

Keep in mind that the advertising slump has hit all the networks hard. There have been layoffs, budget cuts galore.

Maybe it's Warner Brothers that has to show the same faith in Rangers to sell it at a deficit the way Henson sells Farscape at a deficit. Henson does it because they believe their product will pay back for them in the long run. (and it probably will because that company is smart in their merchandising of the show--we already have DVD's)

Did Warner Brothers have that same faith in Rangers?

I don't know, but the answer is key to understanding what has gone on.

As to JMS making announcement, I can't imagine him doing it without prodding, particularly since he's been so busy.

Has anyone even asked him to give them an update lately?
 
As busy as jms is, I don't see him skipping out on one lousy post, especially one as important as this. And the subject seems to come up regularly on rastb5m, the most recent being the "Latest word from Sci-Fi?" thread, started yesterday.

Besides we still have actors posting here, hoping for a series. If SciFi had turned it down, don't you think they would have been told?
 
I haven't seen one of 'em since late Febuary. Howerver I am still keeping my optiomism up. YAY RANGERS!
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Besides we still have actors posting here, hoping for a series. If SciFi had turned it down, don't you think they would have been told? <hr></blockquote>

Hell if I know. I waited around for months to hear whether or not I got this particular job at a huge firm near Palm Beach. After a few months of silence, I pretty much got the picture.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SavantB5:
<font color=yellow>

We just don't know, but JMS mentioned this in a post a while back about how SciFi likes to pay low and WB tries to charge high. I think he was giving us a strong hint of the nature of the negotiations.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

That pretty much describes most negotiations. If you're selling something, generally what you think it is worth is more than a buyer is willing to offer, and then you try to meet somewhere in the middle. Whatever the seller asks for something, the buyer almost always tries to get them to come down a bit, and that's why sellers artificially jack up their asking price a bit, to counter that. If they raise it too high, there will be no bites.

I was recently selling a $1800 used lens at a Camera Show. The lens was in ~98% of perfect condition. The biggest New York dealer is currently selling *the same lens* in only 80% condition for $2200. So, I'd beat the hell out of the New York price. The most I was offered was $1000.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SavantB5:
<font color=yellow>
Keep in mind that the advertising slump has hit all the networks hard. There have been layoffs, budget cuts galore.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Maybe it'll lead to a downsizing of airtimes (e.g. not airing 24/7), elimination of channels/networks, and people leaving the industry.



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SavantB5:
<font color=yellow>
Maybe it's Warner Brothers that has to show the same faith in Rangers to sell it at a deficit the way Henson sells Farscape at a deficit. Henson does it because they believe their product will pay back for them in the long run. (and it probably will because that company is smart in their merchandising of the show--we already have DVD's)
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

That'll be the day! Warner Brothers taking the long view??... like that's going to happen!


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SavantB5:
<font color=yellow>
Did Warner Brothers have that same faith in Rangers?

I don't know, but the answer is key to understanding what has gone on.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

If they had, we'd have known by now. There would be a buzz. There would be something other than dead silence.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by drakh:
<font color=yellow>As busy as jms is, I don't see him skipping out on one lousy post, especially one as important as this.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Well, he may not have anything to say, and/or doesn't want to dash our hopes.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by drakh:
<font color=yellow> And the subject seems to come up regularly on rastb5m, the most recent being the "Latest word from Sci-Fi?" thread, started yesterday.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>


This may take on the connotation of kids in the back seat of the family station wagon, asking repeatedly "Are we there yet?"



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by drakh:
<font color=yellow> Besides we still have actors posting here, hoping for a series. If SciFi had turned it down, don't you think they would have been told? </font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Actors are "employees," and "employees" are often the last ones to be told anything.
 
JMS would've told us if SFC had passed on Rangers. He did this when SFC decided not to do more Crusade. I don't think he would deliberately not tell us that Rangers wasn't picked up. That's not his style. So until he says otherwise, I'm assuming that a Rangers series may still happen.

It's sad to see people giving up. That's why I wish we'd hear *something*!

Tammy
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by KoshN:
<font color=yellow>

Actors are "employees," and "employees" are often the last ones to be told anything.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

But they are in position to hear, or know, things we can't so I'm inclined to think Myrian's and Warren's continured posting bodes well for a series.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>JMS would've told us if SFC had passed on Rangers. He did this when SFC decided not to do more Crusade. <hr></blockquote>

I don't know if he would have or not. Crusade was a different situation (in my mind at least) than Rangers was. I'm not even sure what you mean when you say that SFC "decided not to do more" with Crusade. I wasn't aware that they had done anything regarding Crusade other than to air it every so often like they do with "Now and Again" and a dozen other shows. As far as JMS's silence goes, I thought he made himself pretty clear when he told us what SFC's expectations for B5LR were. The "pilot" wasn't anywhere near that range ... what else needs to be said.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> So until he says otherwise, I'm assuming that a Rangers series may still happen. <hr></blockquote>

I sorta feel the same way about DS9. I keep thinking that until Rick Berman says otherwise, there may be a possibility for a DS9 movie.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>It's sad to see people giving up. <hr></blockquote>

It's sad that we didn't get a more compelling movie than what we did. If Rangers had been something on par with Jeremiah, then I might have mailed off a letter to sci-fi like everyone else. But I don't send off letters to networks asking them to save shows that I really didn't feel were all that good in the first place.

It's probably better to start looking at all the other new series out there, or soon to be out there. Right now, you got Jeremiah, SG-1, Buffy, Enterprise, Smallville, Firefly (soon to be), Farscape .... -- not too shabby.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> But [actors/performers] are in position to hear, or know, things we can't so I'm inclined to think Myrian's and Warren's continured posting bodes well for a series.
<hr></blockquote>

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Ted Koppel didn't know that he was a "yes" away from being fired until he looked inside his morning newspaper. ABC/Disney and David Letterman's people had been negotiating for weeks; ABC made it clear that Nightline was dead and Ted Koppel didn't know a thing about it until we did ... and that guy is actually in the business of knowing things before the general public does.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>
JMS would've told us if SFC had passed on Rangers. He did this when SFC decided not to do more Crusade.
<hr></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsionTen:
<font color=yellow>I'm not even sure what you mean when you say that SFC "decided not to do more" with Crusade. I wasn't aware that they had done anything regarding Crusade other than to air it every so often like they do with "Now and Again" and a dozen other shows.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Agreed (with PsionTen).



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>
It's sad to see people giving up.
<hr></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsionTen:
<font color=yellow>It's probably better to start looking at all the other new series out there, or soon to be out there. Right now, you got Jeremiah, SG-1, Buffy, Enterprise, Smallville, Firefly (soon to be), Farscape .... -- not too shabby.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

...or get away from watching TV. Read a book. I'm tired of getting interested in a show, only to have it cancelled almost instantly, or moved around like it's a card in a game of "Concentration" (Where's the show? Where's the show?).



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>
But [actors/performers] are in position to hear, or know, things we can't so I'm inclined to think Myrian's and Warren's continured posting bodes well for a series.
<hr></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsionTen:
<font color=yellow>I wouldn't be so sure about that. Ted Koppel didn't know that he was a "yes" away from being fired until he looked inside his morning newspaper. ABC/Disney and David Letterman's people had been negotiating for weeks; ABC made it clear that Nightline was dead and Ted Koppel didn't know a thing about it until we did ... and that guy is actually in the business of knowing things before the general public does.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Ding! Everybody's expendable, everybody. The only thing that matters is the immediate advertising revenue.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by KoshN:
<font color=yellow>

Ding! Everybody's expendable, everybody. The only thing that matters is the immediate advertising revenue.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Yep! Fact of life. No advertising revenue, no show, no matter how well done.

As for everyone being expendable, all anyone who thinks they're not has to do is stick their hand in a bucket of water, pull it out and look for the hole they left behind.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tigara:
<font color=yellow>How horribly pessimistic. There is still a chance. Let's not be entirely without hope. </font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Tigara,

There is a difference between stating facts and being pessimistic. I, for one, believe LOTR will become a series. And, it is possible a deal has already been cut and eposides are already in production but this information is withheld for now.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by gangster:
<font color=yellow>

Tigara,

There is a difference between stating facts and being pessimistic. I, for one, believe LOTR will become a series. And, it is possible a deal has already been cut and eposides are already in production but this information is withheld for now. </font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
That's what I like to hear. Well, some facts are pessimistic. Or dreary.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tigara:
<font color=yellow>
That's what I like to hear. Well, some facts are pessimistic. Or dreary. </font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

I think "some facts are depressing" would be better wording. <LOL>
 
I'm hoping in my heart that there will be a series, but my brain is leaning towards no series. /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif
 

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