Rangers Series?!?!

drakh · Mar 26, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by KoshN:
You may suspect, but you don't KNOW. When would anybody, announce anything? After a deal had been signed? We don't know that Warner Brothers isn't presenting proposals to Sc-Fi, however, given the ratings the movie got, and the dead silence afterward, you're probably right.<hr></blockquote>We do know that SciFi/WB did Rangers, and we're still waiting for the outcome of that. I'd be extremly surprised if they were considering an investment of similar magnitutde on any other B5 properties at the same time. I'm mean, you can always say we don't know for sure, but then, we don't know for sure that the SciFi Channel isn't run by a conspiracy of purple vampire penguins from Saturn, either.
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I'm a bit uncertain how to take this.<hr></blockquote>It's nothing to do with the quailty of his writing, which has been decent to very good. It's more the comments certain characters have had about god, that makes me doubt the likelyhood of devine intervention /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Given the numbers that TLaDiS got, and the fact that Warner Brothers lost all the CGI, I probably have better odds at winning the lottery jackpot, than Rangers has of making it to a series. It's a terrible shame that Crusade's resurrection was dependent upon the success of TLaDiS.<hr></blockquote>The sad truth is that TV shows get one shot. That's it. Production gets halted, whatever the reason, it's over. Though luck.

For something to come back, you'd need truly exceptional circumstances, and a Rangers series doing great is the only thing I can think of that even comes close.

PsionTen · Mar 26, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>For something to come back, you'd need truly exceptional circumstances, and a Rangers series doing great is the only thing I can think of that even comes close.
<hr></blockquote>

You may actually be referring to two different "exceptional circumstances" -- #1 Rangers become a series, #2 Rangers does great in the ratings.

gangster · Mar 26, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by PsionTen:
You may actually be referring to two different "exceptional circumstances" -- #1 Rangers become a series, #2 Rangers does great in the ratings.<hr></blockquote>

(IMO) Seems to me you and Drakh are saying the same thing in different words.

Much as I like Crusade, I can't see it ever being continued. There would be too many problems, especially in casting since the former cast has scattered.

PsionTen · Mar 26, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Much as I like Crusade, I can't see it ever being continued. <hr></blockquote>

Hell, I thought the damn show was dead, cancelled and buried years ago.

**DONOTDELETE** · Mar 26, 2002

Sounds like you've already given up hope! I for one have not, and will not until they tell us their decision, which I think will be a yes. I mean, look at some of the shows playing on SciFi, it's pretty sad sometimes. So, in my optimistic brain, I reason that if half-assed shows get to have many seasons on the air, Rangers (which was a great movie, and will be a GREAT series), will also have many seasons on the air.
So keep on hoping guys, Crusade has been off the air for a couple years now, and there are still many people hoping for a resurrection, and the Rangers movie/pilot just played two and a half months ago and many are loosing hope!!! I for one find that sad. I read on this messageboard that SciFi makes their decisions concerning new series in May, so that's probably why we haven't heard from them yet. Come on everyone, project some good karma so Legend of the Rangers becomes a series!

gkarfan · Mar 27, 2002

Thank you, Sky. It's nice to hear an optimistic viewpoint here. I still think that if Rangers wasn't going to happen, JMS would tell us. Others are more negative. Strangely enough, I *can* be a negative person, but I've chosen not to be negative about Rangers--at least until JMS tells us it's over.

Tammy

KoshN · Mar 27, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
We do know that SciFi/WB did Rangers, and we're still waiting for the outcome of that.
<hr></blockquote>

I have the feeling that 50 years from now there will still be no word, if we just wait and do nothing.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
 I'd be extremly surprised if they were considering an investment of similar magnitutde on any other B5 properties at the same time.
<hr></blockquote>

I'd be extremely surprised if they are considering any B5 future projects at the moment. That's why we have to show them that there's interest, that there's demand.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
 I'm mean, you can always say we don't know for sure, but then, we don't know for sure that the SciFi Channel isn't run by a conspiracy of purple vampire penguins from Saturn, either.<hr></blockquote>

You probably meant to say "I mean..." not to indicate that you're mean.

Regarding the conspiracy of purple vampire penguins from Saturn, I kinda like it. Maybe it's an idea for a new hit show. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
 It's nothing to do with the quailty of his writing, which has been decent to very good. It's more the comments certain characters have had about god, that makes me doubt the likelyhood of devine intervention /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif
<hr></blockquote>

OK, gotcha. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
 The sad truth is that TV shows get one shot. That's it. Production gets halted, whatever the reason, it's over. Though luck.
<hr></blockquote>

Yeah, tough luck. However, we're trying to exert some force in the opposite direction, and hopefully to reverse this with respect to Crusade and Rangers.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
 For something to come back, you'd need truly exceptional circumstances, and a Rangers series doing great is the only thing I can think of that even comes close. <hr></blockquote>

Given that Sci-Fi probably feels like it got stung with TLaDiS (sold ads. at one number and made a smaller number, and probably had to give money back, and take a loss on TLaDiS), Crusade might be viewed in a better light than Rangers (post-TLaDiS).

drakh · Mar 28, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by KoshN:
I'd be extremely surprised if they are considering any B5 future projects at the moment. That's why we have to show them that there's interest, that there's demand.<hr></blockquote>But SciFi was convinced that there was interest in a new B5 project by the B5 reruns getting remarkable ratings over a longer period of time. Can you do anything of comparable imapct for Crusade?

So far, all that's been discussed are letters. And letters won't pay their shareholders.<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Given that Sci-Fi probably feels like it got stung with TLaDiS (sold ads. at one number and made a smaller number, and probably had to give money back, and take a loss on TLaDiS), Crusade might be viewed in a better light than Rangers (post-TLaDiS).<hr></blockquote>Ah, but if they've already given up on Rangers, why should they bother with B5 at all, when they can have a shiny new unrelated project made to their spesifications, without having to haggle with Warner Bros. and having to go through the hassle of getting the Crusade cast back together?

KoshN · Mar 29, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
But SciFi was convinced that there was interest in a new B5 project by the B5 reruns getting remarkable ratings over a longer period of time. Can you do anything of comparable impact for Crusade?<hr></blockquote>

Crusade has had more exposure than TLaDiS. There have been more chances for someone to have actually seen an episode of Crusade than TLaDiS. People have seen Crusade and been left hanging. The result is similar to what people would have felt if the Trek people had stopped TNG with "The Best of Both Worlds Part 1." There is pent-up demand.

In Crusade, at least they had the CGI from B5, and it looked more like B5 CGI. TLaDiS has the "look" of a different show/different universe. So, there was more of a visual connection between Crusade and B5 than TLaDiS and B5.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
 So far, all that's been discussed are letters. And letters won't pay their shareholders.
<hr></blockquote>

Letters are written by viewers, who equate to ratings, which leads to advertising revenue. Sci-Fi should know this.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
Ah, but if they've already given up on Rangers, why should they bother with B5 at all, when they can have a shiny new unrelated project made to their specifications, without having to haggle with Warner Bros. and having to go through the hassle of getting the Crusade cast back together? <hr></blockquote>

1. Existing fanbase.

2. TLaDiS had the overall "look" of a shiny unrelated project. That was one of it's weaknesses (not that Sci-Fi's smart enough to see that, of course). One of the strengths of the production would have been it's B5 tie-ins (known characters and races behaving in-character; hi-res and crystal clear shots of the models and backrounds, not the murky space around B5 and Minbar that we got, not the soft-focus glimpse of B5 that we got, not the low-res and distant shots and wrong-way Nials that we got, not the different look of hyperspace and jumppoints that we got). The overall "look" of TLaDiS didn't support a strong visual connection to Babylon 5/Crusade. Other than the Ranger Pin, the Minbari headbones, the two Narn (especially G'Kar, but also Na'Feel), the distant shots of Whitestars, and the fleeting glimpse of B5 (barely rotating), it did not have much connection to B5 or Crusade. The effects were mostly SOFT, and not hi-res at all. Most of the time I thought I was looking at it through a Nikon "Soft 1" filter, and some of them looked like they used a "Soft 2" (Soft 2 is a stronger effect than Soft 1.) !

If they want to attract, rather than turn-off an existing fanbase, they better more closely match the look and feel of B5/Crusade. The connections to B5/Crusade are strengths, not weaknesses. However, they probably won't figure this out, and will just chalk it up to people not being interested in B5 anymore. This is similar to the kind of thinking that initially led WHV to the conclusion that nobody would buy B5 DVDs because the B5 VHS sales fell off.

gangster · Mar 29, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by KoshN:


If they want to attract, rather than turn-off an existing fanbase, they better more closely match the look and feel of B5/Crusade. The connections to B5/Crusade are strengths, not weaknesses. However, they probably won't figure this out, and will just chalk it up to people not being interested in B5 anymore. This is similar to the kind of thinking that initially led WHV to the conclusion that nobody would buy B5 DVDs because the B5 VHS sales fell off.<hr></blockquote>

I suspect it wasn't they didn't want to have better tie-ins with B5/Crusade (which was in later time than TLaDiS) but that it was impractical and/or too costly since they would have meant having the B5 set/CGI files plus at least Lockley and Zack Allen at B5 to give the tie-in needed.

As for lack of sales on VHS for B5, it didn't take people long to realize how many tapes they would end up and the cost of obtaining the entire series in SP mode. If they had sold it with 5 or 6 eps on each tape in EP, it would have done much better. In other words, WHV cut its own throat by being greedy.

KoshN · Mar 29, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by gangster:
I suspect it wasn't they didn't want to have better tie-ins with B5/Crusade (which was in later time than TLaDiS)
<hr></blockquote>

Of course, TLaDiS came before Crusade. In chronological order, we have Babylon 5 (ignoring DoFS and SiL, which are outside the main 5 years), TLaDiS, and Crusade. TLaDiS sits between Babylon 5 and Crusade and doesn't look like either of them. (Thanks, WB! /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif)

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by gangster:
 but that it was impractical and/or too costly since they would have meant having the B5 set/CGI files plus at least Lockley and Zack Allen at B5 to give the tie-in needed.<hr></blockquote>

Examples of tie-ins that could have been done without B5 sets, Lochley, and Zack:

Minbar (the entire planet as seen from space) and the surrounding space as we're used to seeing in Babylon 5, or at least closer to how we're used to seeing it.

Babylon 5 (as seen from the jumpgate) and the surrounding space and Epsilon 3 as we're used to seeing in Babylon 5, or at least closer to how we're used to seeing it.

Jumppoints that were closer in color to B5 jumppoints.

Nials not flying backward.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by gangster:
As for lack of sales on VHS for B5, it didn't take people long to realize how many tapes they would end up and the cost of obtaining the entire series in SP mode.<hr></blockquote>

What killed VHS sales was not the high cost and required amount of storage space of all those SP VHS tapes, but rather the announcement that B5 was going to come out on DVD, plus a lot of people (myself included) already had all the episodes on SP VHS (recorded off TNT). VHS tapes are a low-res. item and they wear out, get dropouts, get crinkled, or VCRs eat them. DVDs are hi-res. and there's no physical wear to them. I haven't bought any pre-recorded VHS for years. Warner Brothers DVD announcement also helped kill the Laserdisc release in mid-stream. The other contributing factor was that they waited so long to release B5 on Laserdisc, and by the time they did, DVD was already starting to take hold.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by gangster:
 If they had sold it with 5 or 6 eps on each tape in EP, it would have done much better. In other words, WHV cut its own throat by being greedy. <hr></blockquote>

EP? You've got to be kidding. That's stuff's awful, plus the wear rate is even worse than for SP. No, WHV cut it's own throat by being STUPID (e.g. losing the CGI files).

gangster · Mar 30, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by KoshN:


What killed VHS sales was not the high cost and required amount of storage space of all those SP VHS tapes, but rather the announcement that B5 was going to come out on DVD, plus a lot of people (myself included) already had all the episodes on SP VHS (recorded off TNT). VHS tapes are a low-res. item and they wear out, get dropouts, get crinkled, or VCRs eat them. DVDs are hi-res. and there's no physical wear to them. I haven't bought any pre-recorded VHS for years. Warner Brothers DVD announcement also helped kill the Laserdisc release in mid-stream. The other contributing factor was that they waited so long to release B5 on Laserdisc, and by the time they did, DVD was already starting to take hold.

EP? You've got to be kidding. That's stuff's awful, plus the wear rate is even worse than for SP. No, WHV cut it's own throat by being STUPID (e.g. losing the CGI files).<hr></blockquote>

While admitting the announcement B5 would come out on DVD probably played a part in killing VHS tape sales, I suspect it was a small part since, even today, a majority of TV viewers don't have DVD players. Something else to consider: To date, how many B5 DVD's are out there? And how soon will the rest be released?

Anyway, I suspect a lot of people simply recorded B5 from either TNT when it was on, or more recently from SciFi Channel. For many this will be sufficient but the hard core fan is waiting for the DVD. In the meantime they'll watch on VHS tape.

As for losing the CGI files, I suspect there is someone around who knows where those are at and will "find" the files when it will be most benificial for the one (or more than one) who knows. (Nothing to base this on other having seen similar things happen in the past.)

I will agree completely with the great quality difference DVD has over VHS and that SP recording has better quality than EP.

Jomar · Mar 30, 2002

If JMS got the go ahead he would spread the word. He would want the fans to know as soon as possible. The fact that he has said nothing doesn't mean Rangers is dead. It just means that it has not been okayed so far. Also, I don't know exactly what Polaris is but it seems to be a series that is being considered. Even JMS really can't run three series at once at least not giving his full attention to any of them. Jeremiah has got off to a good start and I don't think he is anxious to jeapordise that.

I suspect when the day comes that SciFi Networks needs a new series to fill a spot they will be considering the B5 universe as well as others. I haven't seen LotR but from what I have read they could use the premise and do another pilot with some different actors (like the original Star Trek).

hypatia · Mar 30, 2002

Jomar, I would think that even JMS would have to keep tight-lipped if Rangers were to become a series. Isn't it the station that gets to decide when and how such news is announced?

If there were no chance at a Rangers series with Sci fi, then maybe JMS would say something. But I think if a station buys the rights to a series they also buy the rights to announce it when and how they see fit.

Right? /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

gkarfan · Mar 30, 2002

JMS wouldn't be the first to announce that Rangers is a go. The network would do it. If SFC passes, JMS is free to say so.

Tammy

KoshN · Mar 30, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by gangster:
While admitting the announcement B5 would come out on DVD probably played a part in killing VHS tape sales, I suspect it was a small part since, even today, a majority of TV viewers don't have DVD players.
<hr></blockquote>

It's also what killed Laserdisc sales. I have all the Laserdiscs (all 4:3 aspect ratio) that were released here in the US, and I'm glad I bought them, because they're better than the Sci-Fi Widescreen releases, and better than the one DVD we got so far. I just wish they'd completed the run in Laserdisc, instead of stopping 27 discs early.

The price of DVD players keeps coming down. I've seen players for $169.95, and before you say that there are VCRs for $69.95, those VCRs are junk that can't compete with the picture quality of DVD, and will probably break within a year, and before that they'll probably start eating/crinkling tapes.

DVD is accelerating in taking over the market from VHS. Things are routinely made available on DVD before they're made available on VHS. There have been many times when I wanted to preview a movie on VHS (if I missed it in the theaters), to see if I wanted to add it to my DVD collection, but the VHS version isn't out yet, and the DVDs are already on the shelf.

Here in the US, rental places now stock DVDs for rental. Heck, even Giant Eagle (a grocery store) has DVD rentals. The only places that are resisting DVD rental encroachment are the old, privately owned-and-run rental places with a large stock of VHS (like the place where I've been a member since 1986). They can't afford to do both VHS and DVD of every new release, so they do only VHS. As a result, their business is falling rapidly. Almost every time I go in the store, I'm the only customer in there. I'm a Life Member (and get 14 free rentals per year), and now the owner is telling me that he can't afford to do that anymore. It's only a matter of time before he's out of business. He's being edged out and is unwilling to change with the times (e.g. get "some" new releases on DVD and VHS).

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by gangster:
Something else to consider: To date, how many B5 DVD's are out there? And how soon will the rest be released?
<hr></blockquote>

A lot, and more all the time. It seems that one of the limiting factors right now is how fast the factories can churn out the DVDs. They're trying to get caught up with older films and series, and also keep up with all the new releases. The new releases have priority.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by gangster:
Anyway, I suspect a lot of people simply recorded B5 from either TNT when it was on, or more recently from SciFi Channel. For many this will be sufficient but the hard core fan is waiting for the DVD. In the meantime they'll watch on VHS tape.
<hr></blockquote>

Tapes wear out. Tapes get damaged. I had a VCR eat an X-Files tape I was making the other day. I've never had a Laserdisc player or DVD player damage a disc. My TNT tapes are now four years old. The more I play them and the more they age, the more they degrade.

Whenever I want to see the following episodes, I watch the laserdiscs:

Babylon 5 - Volume 1.1 - The Gathering (remix)
Babylon 5 - Volume 1.2 - Midnight of the Firing Line / Soul Hunter
Babylon 5 - Volume 1.3 - Born to the Purple / Infection
Babylon 5 - Volume 1.4 - The Parliament of Dreams / Mind War
Babylon 5 - Volume 1.5 - The War Prayer / And the Sky Full of Stars
Babylon 5 - Volume 1.6 - Deathwalker / Believers
Babylon 5 - Volume 1.7 - Survivors / By Any Means Necessary
Babylon 5 - Volume 1.8 - Signs and Portents / TKO
Babylon 5 - Volume 1.9 - Grail / Eyes
Babylon 5 - Volume 1.10 - Legacies / A Voice in the Wilderness Part 1
Babylon 5 - Volume 1.11 - A Voice in the Wilderness Part 2 / Babylon Squared
Babylon 5 - Volume 1.12 - The Quality of Mercy / Chrysalis
Babylon 5 - Volume 2.0 - Points of Departure / Revelations
Babylon 5 - Volume 2.1 - The Geometry of Shadows / A Distant Star
Babylon 5 - Volume 2.2 - The Long Dark / A Spider in the Web
Babylon 5 - Volume 2.4 - A Race Through Dark Places / Soul Mates
Babylon 5 - Volume 2.5 - The Coming of Shadows / GROPOS
Babylon 5 - Volume 2.6 - All Alone in the Night / Acts of Sacrifice
Babylon 5 - Volume 4.1 - The Hour of the Wolf / Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?
Babylon 5 - Volume 4.2 - The Summoning / Falling Toward Apotheosis
Babylon 5 - Volume 4.3 - The Long Night / Into the Fire
Babylon 5 - Volume 5.1 - In the Beginning
Babylon 5 - Volume 5.2 - No Compromises / The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari
Babylon 5 - Volume 5.3 - The Paragon of Animals / A View from the Gallery
Babylon 5 - Volume 5.4 - Learning Curve / Strange Relations
Babylon 5 - Volume 5.5 - Secrets of the Soul / In the Kingdom of the Blind
Babylon 5 - Volume 5.6 - A Tragedy of Telepaths / Day of the Dead
Babylon 5 - Volume 5.7 - Phoenix Rising / The Ragged Edge
Babylon 5 - Volume 5.8 - The Corps Is Mother, The Corps Is Father / Meditations on the Abyss
Babylon 5 - Volume 5.9 - Darkness Ascending / And All My Dreams Torn Asunder
Babylon 5 - Volume 5.10 - Movements of Fire and Shadow / The Fall of Centauri Prime
Babylon 5 - Volume 5.11 - The Wheel of Fire / Objects in Motion
Babylon 5 - Volume 5.12 - Objects at Rest / Sleeping in Light

Regarding the above numbering, I never said WB could count. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif
If it's not available on Laserdisc (i.e. not in the above list), I have to watch it on my TNT tapes, because that's all I have. I didn't record the Sci-Fi Widescreen airings because of the initial errors (e.g. the teapot), the poor signal (compared to the TNT signal of the first B5 run on TNT), and especially the top & bottom cropped CGI.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by gangster:
As for losing the CGI files, I suspect there is someone around who knows where those are at and will "find" the files
<hr></blockquote>

[Draal] I HOPE SO!!!!!! [/Draal]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by gangster:
when it will be most benificial for the one (or more than one) who knows. (Nothing to base this on other having seen similar things happen in the past.)
<hr></blockquote>

/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif "the one" /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif
Do you mean when it's most beneficial for the bonehead (no Minbari slurs intended) who "misplaced" the files? /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Tigara · Mar 30, 2002

The Draal thing is from the bathroom break gag right?

KoshN · Mar 30, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Jomar:
Also, I don't know exactly what Polaris is but it seems to be a series that is being considered. Even JMS really can't run three series at once at least not giving his full attention to any of them. Jeremiah has got off to a good start and I don't think he is anxious to jeapordise that.
<hr></blockquote>

As invalensname said in The Crusade for Crusade... :

"There is one particular project that JMS has been working on for awhile that he simply calls 'Polaris.' Now, I was thinking wouldn't it be awesome if this was a code name for Crusade? Its a long shot, but would be great! "

That would be cool. /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Jomar:
I suspect when the day comes that SciFi Networks needs a new series to fill a spot they will be considering the B5 universe as well as others. I haven't seen LotR but from what I have read they could use the premise and do another pilot with some different actors (like the original Star Trek). <hr></blockquote>

The actors we have now are fine. There just have to be some adjustments made between TLaDiS (the Rangers pilot) and the Rangers series in the area of the weapons pod, and the CGI. The overall look should better match the look of B5 and Crusade since this series is the bridge between them.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Tigara:
The Draal thing is from the bathroom break gag right?<hr></blockquote>

Yes, from the blooper reel.
From <a target="_blank" href=http://b5.sdvc.uwyo.edu/bab5/>http://b5.sdvc.uwyo.edu/bab5/</a>
valesh12.wav

gangster · Mar 30, 2002

Yes. I mean when it's most beneficial for the bonehead who "misplaced" the CGI files.

drakh · Mar 30, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by KoshN:
Letters are written by viewers, who equate to ratings, which leads to advertising revenue.<hr></blockquote>And if you could get a couple of hundred thousand people to write in telling SciFi they'd watch a ressurected Crusade, I'm sure the programing department would take notice.<blockquote>Quote:<hr>1. Existing fanbase.<hr></blockquote>So does most of the canceled show SciFi picks up, many of them network shows, seen by far more people than Crusade or B5.

In the end, SciFi has to be conviced that there is exceptional interest among its viewers in a property to consider it over a fresh concept. Through solid Nielsen ratings, B5 managed this. Crusade did not. 30-40 letters during April won't change that.<blockquote>Quote:<hr>2. TLaDiS had the overall "look" of a shiny unrelated project. That was one of it's weaknesses (not that Sci-Fi's smart enough to see that, of course).<hr></blockquote>When I say new project, I mean one they're with from the start, likely owned by "the family" (USA Networks). Having to deal with WB is a significant turn off, likely to get them a much worse deal. They need hard numbers (not letters) to convice them that it's worth the extra expense and hassle.<blockquote>Quote:<hr>One of the strengths of the production would have been it's B5 tie-ins (known characters and races behaving in-character; hi-res and crystal clear shots of the models and backrounds, not the murky space around B5 and Minbar that we got, not the soft-focus glimpse of B5 that we got, not the low-res and distant shots and wrong-way Nials that we got, not the different look of hyperspace and jumppoints that we got). The overall "look" of TLaDiS didn't support a strong visual connection to Babylon 5/Crusade. Other than the Ranger Pin, the Minbari headbones, the two Narn (especially G'Kar, but also Na'Feel), the distant shots of Whitestars, and the fleeting glimpse of B5 (barely rotating), it did not have much connection to B5 or Crusade. The effects were mostly SOFT, and not hi-res at all. Most of the time I thought I was looking at it through a Nikon "Soft 1" filter, and some of them looked like they used a "Soft 2" (Soft 2 is a stronger effect than Soft 1.) !<hr></blockquote>You seem to be forgetting that most of these criticisms were directed at Crusade when it premiered. Where are the B5 aliens? The Whitestars? Sheridan and Delenn? The effects look like crap!

(And IMO, the CGI in the first batch of Crusade episodes to air was pretty sub-standard, unlike the Rangers CGI which I quite liked).<blockquote>Quote:<hr>If they want to attract, rather than turn-off an existing fanbase, they better more closely match the look and feel of B5/Crusade.<hr></blockquote>I certainly didn't get the impression that most B5 fans felt the show stayed too far from B5 from watching the trailers and comercials. And that was what the viewers who didn't watch it had to go on when they choose the football game (or whatever) instead. And if the look of the show was so alienating it's audience, then why did the show gain viewers instead of loosing them?

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