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Scifi article

This discussion reminds me a lot of what was going on in the rap industry in the late 80s and early 90s. The big thing back then was for black rappers to produce "softer" material so that they could cross-over better to the white teenager audience.... so you had rappers like M.C. Hammer, Tone Loc and others producing "soft" material, while people like N.W.A., Ice-T, Public Enemy and others were continuing to produce the "hard" material.

What eventually happened was the reverse... white audiences (for whatever reason) went for the "hard" material, while the cross-over artists were left out in the cold. They had completely alienated their core audience and their targeted audience wanted nothing to do with them.

It's entirely possible that something like this will eventually happen. The one big difference is that it's a lot easier for a new "hard" rap performing artist to get started than it is for a new cable network. Sci-Fi can be fairly comfortable that they'll have time to make whatever adjustments they need while potential competitors are struggling to get added to cable and satellite lineups.

Not directly related to this reply but still relevant to the topic is this item in today's Programming Insider column from Mediaweek :

More Gains for Sci Fi Channel:

The Sci Fi Channel also had plenty to crow about in May, with 13 straight months of ratings growth (its 0.9 in prime time was up 29 percent over May 2002). Fueled by programming like Stargate-1 and original action movie Silent Warnings (and based on entertainment-related cable networks only), Sci Fi placed in the top 10 in adults 18-49, adults 25-54, men 18-49 and men 25-54.

Their ratings are going up, still, even after Farscape's cancellation. It's not just my demented imagination...
 
This discussion reminds me a lot of what was going on in the rap industry in the late 80s and early 90s. The big thing back then was for black rappers to produce "softer" material so that they could cross-over better to the white teenager audience.... so you had rappers like M.C. Hammer, Tone Loc and others producing "soft" material, while people like N.W.A., Ice-T, Public Enemy and others were continuing to produce the "hard" material.

What eventually happened was the reverse... white audiences (for whatever reason) went for the "hard" material, while the cross-over artists were left out in the cold. They had completely alienated their core audience and their targeted audience wanted nothing to do with them.

It's entirely possible that something like this will eventually happen. The one big difference is that it's a lot easier for a new "hard" rap performing artist to get started than it is for a new cable network. Sci-Fi can be fairly comfortable that they'll have time to make whatever adjustments they need while potential competitors are struggling to get added to cable and satellite lineups.

Not directly related to this reply but still relevant to the topic is this item in today's Programming Insider column from Mediaweek :

More Gains for Sci Fi Channel:

The Sci Fi Channel also had plenty to crow about in May, with 13 straight months of ratings growth (its 0.9 in prime time was up 29 percent over May 2002). Fueled by programming like Stargate-1 and original action movie Silent Warnings (and based on entertainment-related cable networks only), Sci Fi placed in the top 10 in adults 18-49, adults 25-54, men 18-49 and men 25-54.

Their ratings are going up, still, even after Farscape's cancellation. It's not just my demented imagination...
 
1. I doubt they seriously researched anything. 2. Even if they did, I doubt that they could interpret the numbers any better than the average chimpanzee.

And what, exactly would lead you to believe that? The fact that your own preconceptions have no apparent connection to reality?

If there's anybody who has no connection to reality, it's the idiots running The Sci-Fi Channel. Otherwise, Dream Team, Scare Tactics, and Tremors: The Series would never have seen the light of day, and if those ideas had been brought up at a meeting, the response would have been "Are you f*king nuts?!?!?"


Or do you have sources of information you're not telling us about, other than inventing things out your imagination?

And here I was tempted to ask ElScorcho not to be snippy towards you. :p

What leads me to believe that?
<ul type="square">

[*] Their current choices for new shows. The series that they do put into production are either so horrendous that they drive away the traditional sci-fi audience (Dream Team, Scare Tactics), and/or they're painfully cheap (Scare Tactics, Tremors: The Series).

[*] All this "reimagination" of BSG (a really lame show to begin with and the reimagined one will surely be even worse). It seems like the only space sci-fi they'll do is lame, laughable space sci-fi. Great, just what the genre needs, reinforcement that space sci-fi is silly stuff that would only be of interest to stereotypical nerds!

[*] Their placing greater importance on miniseries than series. That's like saying that you're going to cut your meat, potatoes & vegetables budget down to almost nothing just so you can binge on dessert. They go in for these big money miniseries that spike the ratings momentarily and then have no money left for series (which have to cover the majority of the year). The result is that you have a few weeks of interesting stuff (if you're lucky) followed by months and months of drought.

[/list]


They do research. Lots of it. They spend lots of money on research tools and data and on people to do the research.

Maybe they have people gather the data, but it sure looks like they can't interpret it. Either that or they're zeroing in on the demographic that appears in Jay Leno's "Jay Walking" and "Point" segments.


In fact, the common complaint throughout the industry is that programmers do too much research and follow the results too slavishly, meaning that they're much less willing to try new things and take risks than they were before.

That's where interpreting the numbers comes in.


Why did they spend any money on:
<ul type="square">
[*] Dream Team ? (lame idea, belongs on Lifetime, Oxygen, or daytime TV if anywhere)

[*] Scare Tactics ? (so phony it's laughable, extreme bad taste, looks like it was made by inbred trailer park people who never graduated high school and don't even have all their teeth)

[*] Tremors: The Series ? (An idea that was worn out by the end of the first movie, stretched to cover four movies and a series??? Gees, does it sound like they're "reaching" here, like they're out of ideas, to you?)
[/list]

Why do they pass up things like Crusade and Brimstone (which couldn't have cost much. JMS is known for doing B5 on a tight budget. Brimstone had few effects and a very small cast.)? These are UNfinished and would be a natural fit on a Sci-Fi Channel.


If they'd expect Farscape viewers to stay tuned in to watch stuff like Dream Team, Scare Tactics and Tremors: The Series, they'd be greatly disappointed.

Yes! Exactly!

Are you feeling alright? You just agreed with me. :confused: Note the use of the word "expect" in my sentence above. What brain-damaged people would expect Farscape fans to stay tuned in for Dream Team, Scare Tactics and Tremors: The Series?

For instance, I watch the CSI reruns (Season 1 & 2) on TNN. Wrestling precedes the CSI reruns. How much of wrestling do you think I watch before "DVD recording" CSI? Answer: As little as possible! I'd timer record except that wrestling almost never ends on time (11:05PM Eastern, usually varies from 11:02 to 11:10).


Which is probably one of the reasons they're no longer showing Farscape. Because it was easier to change that piece than to change all of the pieces around it.

So, if you have a good, respectable show that hasn't wrapped up, one that even the critics like, you throw it out and keep the garbage that was around it? Doesn't it make more sense to throw out the garbage?

That's like cutting the fat off a steak, eating the fat and throwing the good meat away.

What I think they're discounting is the damage it's doing to the reputation of the channel.

Damage to the reputation of the channel? There's no damage going on to the reputation that matters to them -- the reputation for delivering audiences to the advertisers.

More like the reputation for delivering idiots to "Idiot TV."

They're damaging the sci-fi genre. They're reinforcing the stereotypes. They're causing long term harm to the genre. This is happening at a time when the genre is at a low ebb, on life support as it is. They're kicking it while it's down. The very least they could do is to take "Sci-Fi" out of the channel's name.


You seem to be forgetting the most important point here. The Sci-Fi Channel does not exist to show quality programming. The Sci-Fi Channel exists to make money. The Sci-Fi Channel makes money by selling the viewing time of audiences to their advertisers.

Any argument that doesn't consider that fact is an absurd irrelevancy.

If they show quality programming, they can make money. They just need to know how to air the quality programming.
<ul type="square">[*] Air it like other networks normally do, show a block of new episodes, and then rerun those episodes in order, or show a new episode and show it's rerun later in the week. The key is to be predictable. The goal is not to fake-out the audience.

[*] Do not bookend the quality programming with schlock. That pisses off the fans of the quality programming.

[*] Instead of spending tons of money on miniseries a couple times a year, go more for quality series that cover most of the year. Sprinkle in a few good movies, old, inexpensive theatricals and "Sci-Fi Productions" movies. Fill the rest of the schedule with reruns of good stuff, in steady, predictable timeslots, not these "Daytime Rotations" which seem to have no rhyme or reason.

[*] Don't step all over your programming with damned popup ads. Don't put popup ads. for CRAP all over your quality programming.

[/list]


True. The only possible exception would be if they lost a person in a favored demo. and gained two in an unfavored demo.

Yes. But that apparently hasn't been happening.


Possible Conclusions:
<ul type="square">[*] Sci-Fi isn't really getting any data, and is just winging it. Putting on the cheapest stuff they can find, in the theory that if they get it for next to nothing, they ought to be able to make a profit on it.

[*] Sci-Fi is misinterpreting the data.

[*] The vast majority of the available audience is from the shallowest part the gene pool, IQ: ~60.
[/list]


Tremors: The Series and Scare Tactics ratings have been going down, not up.

Which is why they've been repeatedly preempted and are likely to disappear if that pattern continues.

Shouldn't this communicate something to Sci-Fi? Hint: Maybe people really don't like cheap schlock. :eek:
 
1. I doubt they seriously researched anything. 2. Even if they did, I doubt that they could interpret the numbers any better than the average chimpanzee.

And what, exactly would lead you to believe that? The fact that your own preconceptions have no apparent connection to reality?

If there's anybody who has no connection to reality, it's the idiots running The Sci-Fi Channel. Otherwise, Dream Team, Scare Tactics, and Tremors: The Series would never have seen the light of day, and if those ideas had been brought up at a meeting, the response would have been "Are you f*king nuts?!?!?"


Or do you have sources of information you're not telling us about, other than inventing things out your imagination?

And here I was tempted to ask ElScorcho not to be snippy towards you. :p

What leads me to believe that?
<ul type="square">

[*] Their current choices for new shows. The series that they do put into production are either so horrendous that they drive away the traditional sci-fi audience (Dream Team, Scare Tactics), and/or they're painfully cheap (Scare Tactics, Tremors: The Series).

[*] All this "reimagination" of BSG (a really lame show to begin with and the reimagined one will surely be even worse). It seems like the only space sci-fi they'll do is lame, laughable space sci-fi. Great, just what the genre needs, reinforcement that space sci-fi is silly stuff that would only be of interest to stereotypical nerds!

[*] Their placing greater importance on miniseries than series. That's like saying that you're going to cut your meat, potatoes & vegetables budget down to almost nothing just so you can binge on dessert. They go in for these big money miniseries that spike the ratings momentarily and then have no money left for series (which have to cover the majority of the year). The result is that you have a few weeks of interesting stuff (if you're lucky) followed by months and months of drought.

[/list]


They do research. Lots of it. They spend lots of money on research tools and data and on people to do the research.

Maybe they have people gather the data, but it sure looks like they can't interpret it. Either that or they're zeroing in on the demographic that appears in Jay Leno's "Jay Walking" and "Point" segments.


In fact, the common complaint throughout the industry is that programmers do too much research and follow the results too slavishly, meaning that they're much less willing to try new things and take risks than they were before.

That's where interpreting the numbers comes in.


Why did they spend any money on:
<ul type="square">
[*] Dream Team ? (lame idea, belongs on Lifetime, Oxygen, or daytime TV if anywhere)

[*] Scare Tactics ? (so phony it's laughable, extreme bad taste, looks like it was made by inbred trailer park people who never graduated high school and don't even have all their teeth)

[*] Tremors: The Series ? (An idea that was worn out by the end of the first movie, stretched to cover four movies and a series??? Gees, does it sound like they're "reaching" here, like they're out of ideas, to you?)
[/list]

Why do they pass up things like Crusade and Brimstone (which couldn't have cost much. JMS is known for doing B5 on a tight budget. Brimstone had few effects and a very small cast.)? These are UNfinished and would be a natural fit on a Sci-Fi Channel.


If they'd expect Farscape viewers to stay tuned in to watch stuff like Dream Team, Scare Tactics and Tremors: The Series, they'd be greatly disappointed.

Yes! Exactly!

Are you feeling alright? You just agreed with me. :confused: Note the use of the word "expect" in my sentence above. What brain-damaged people would expect Farscape fans to stay tuned in for Dream Team, Scare Tactics and Tremors: The Series?

For instance, I watch the CSI reruns (Season 1 & 2) on TNN. Wrestling precedes the CSI reruns. How much of wrestling do you think I watch before "DVD recording" CSI? Answer: As little as possible! I'd timer record except that wrestling almost never ends on time (11:05PM Eastern, usually varies from 11:02 to 11:10).


Which is probably one of the reasons they're no longer showing Farscape. Because it was easier to change that piece than to change all of the pieces around it.

So, if you have a good, respectable show that hasn't wrapped up, one that even the critics like, you throw it out and keep the garbage that was around it? Doesn't it make more sense to throw out the garbage?

That's like cutting the fat off a steak, eating the fat and throwing the good meat away.

What I think they're discounting is the damage it's doing to the reputation of the channel.

Damage to the reputation of the channel? There's no damage going on to the reputation that matters to them -- the reputation for delivering audiences to the advertisers.

More like the reputation for delivering idiots to "Idiot TV."

They're damaging the sci-fi genre. They're reinforcing the stereotypes. They're causing long term harm to the genre. This is happening at a time when the genre is at a low ebb, on life support as it is. They're kicking it while it's down. The very least they could do is to take "Sci-Fi" out of the channel's name.


You seem to be forgetting the most important point here. The Sci-Fi Channel does not exist to show quality programming. The Sci-Fi Channel exists to make money. The Sci-Fi Channel makes money by selling the viewing time of audiences to their advertisers.

Any argument that doesn't consider that fact is an absurd irrelevancy.

If they show quality programming, they can make money. They just need to know how to air the quality programming.
<ul type="square">[*] Air it like other networks normally do, show a block of new episodes, and then rerun those episodes in order, or show a new episode and show it's rerun later in the week. The key is to be predictable. The goal is not to fake-out the audience.

[*] Do not bookend the quality programming with schlock. That pisses off the fans of the quality programming.

[*] Instead of spending tons of money on miniseries a couple times a year, go more for quality series that cover most of the year. Sprinkle in a few good movies, old, inexpensive theatricals and "Sci-Fi Productions" movies. Fill the rest of the schedule with reruns of good stuff, in steady, predictable timeslots, not these "Daytime Rotations" which seem to have no rhyme or reason.

[*] Don't step all over your programming with damned popup ads. Don't put popup ads. for CRAP all over your quality programming.

[/list]


True. The only possible exception would be if they lost a person in a favored demo. and gained two in an unfavored demo.

Yes. But that apparently hasn't been happening.


Possible Conclusions:
<ul type="square">[*] Sci-Fi isn't really getting any data, and is just winging it. Putting on the cheapest stuff they can find, in the theory that if they get it for next to nothing, they ought to be able to make a profit on it.

[*] Sci-Fi is misinterpreting the data.

[*] The vast majority of the available audience is from the shallowest part the gene pool, IQ: ~60.
[/list]


Tremors: The Series and Scare Tactics ratings have been going down, not up.

Which is why they've been repeatedly preempted and are likely to disappear if that pattern continues.

Shouldn't this communicate something to Sci-Fi? Hint: Maybe people really don't like cheap schlock. :eek:
 
We used to be the target audience for The "Sci-Fi" Channel. Now, we're considered a marginal group (by Hammer & Co.), not important enough to care about. Sure, she still lists us in her pidgeon hole (sci-phile), but really she wants mainstream viewers more than us.

Almost. She wants any viewers. Since there are a hell of a lot more mainstream viewers than SF viewers in the population, it's only common sense to target the mainstream.

Not if you're a "Sci-Fi" Channel. They should put an end to the ruse of being a Sci-Fi Channel.
 
We used to be the target audience for The "Sci-Fi" Channel. Now, we're considered a marginal group (by Hammer & Co.), not important enough to care about. Sure, she still lists us in her pidgeon hole (sci-phile), but really she wants mainstream viewers more than us.

Almost. She wants any viewers. Since there are a hell of a lot more mainstream viewers than SF viewers in the population, it's only common sense to target the mainstream.

Not if you're a "Sci-Fi" Channel. They should put an end to the ruse of being a Sci-Fi Channel.
 
It's entirely possible that something like this will eventually happen. The one big difference is that it's a lot easier for a new "hard" rap performing artist to get started than it is for a new cable network. Sci-Fi can be fairly comfortable that they'll have time to make whatever adjustments they need while potential competitors are struggling to get added to cable and satellite lineups.

No new sci-fi channel will start while The "Sci-Fi" Channel is still alive. I doubt anybody thinks the market is big enough to support two sci-fi channels, even for the amount of time it'd take the new channel to destroy The "Sci-Fi" Channel.

Not directly related to this reply but still relevant to the topic is this item in today's Programming Insider column from Mediaweek :

More Gains for Sci Fi Channel:

The Sci Fi Channel also had plenty to crow about in May, with 13 straight months of ratings growth (its 0.9 in prime time was up 29 percent over May 2002). Fueled by programming like Stargate-1 and original action movie Silent Warnings (and based on entertainment-related cable networks only), Sci Fi placed in the top 10 in adults 18-49, adults 25-54, men 18-49 and men 25-54.

Their ratings are going up, still, even after Farscape's cancellation. It's not just my demented imagination...

So they went from 0.7 to 0.9. Neither number is anything to crow about. We'd have to compare what was airing in May 2002 to what is airing in May 2003, and see the detailed numbers to know what caused the increase, and how it pertains to Farscape. First runs of Stargate SG-1 ended March 21, 2003. It could mean that people are happy and relieved that Sci-Fi replaced "Tremors: The Series" first runs with SG-1 re-runs. Without seeing the details, there's no way for us to tell.
 
It's entirely possible that something like this will eventually happen. The one big difference is that it's a lot easier for a new "hard" rap performing artist to get started than it is for a new cable network. Sci-Fi can be fairly comfortable that they'll have time to make whatever adjustments they need while potential competitors are struggling to get added to cable and satellite lineups.

No new sci-fi channel will start while The "Sci-Fi" Channel is still alive. I doubt anybody thinks the market is big enough to support two sci-fi channels, even for the amount of time it'd take the new channel to destroy The "Sci-Fi" Channel.

Not directly related to this reply but still relevant to the topic is this item in today's Programming Insider column from Mediaweek :

More Gains for Sci Fi Channel:

The Sci Fi Channel also had plenty to crow about in May, with 13 straight months of ratings growth (its 0.9 in prime time was up 29 percent over May 2002). Fueled by programming like Stargate-1 and original action movie Silent Warnings (and based on entertainment-related cable networks only), Sci Fi placed in the top 10 in adults 18-49, adults 25-54, men 18-49 and men 25-54.

Their ratings are going up, still, even after Farscape's cancellation. It's not just my demented imagination...

So they went from 0.7 to 0.9. Neither number is anything to crow about. We'd have to compare what was airing in May 2002 to what is airing in May 2003, and see the detailed numbers to know what caused the increase, and how it pertains to Farscape. First runs of Stargate SG-1 ended March 21, 2003. It could mean that people are happy and relieved that Sci-Fi replaced "Tremors: The Series" first runs with SG-1 re-runs. Without seeing the details, there's no way for us to tell.
 
Almost. She wants any viewers. Since there are a hell of a lot more mainstream viewers than SF viewers in the population, it's only common sense to target the mainstream.

WRONG it is an act of pure folly. Niche Companies that go up against the big boys are eaten alive. If the company does not get say 10% of the market it will go bankrupt.

For a discussion of Niche Companies see "Innovation and Entrepreneurship" by Peter F. Drucker. Another appropriate book is "Managing for Results".

Sci-Fi channel may survive if it changes a small niche for a bigger niche. The 3 types of viewer may provide the bigger niche. Particularly if they can discover the sorts of products each type buys.
 
Almost. She wants any viewers. Since there are a hell of a lot more mainstream viewers than SF viewers in the population, it's only common sense to target the mainstream.

WRONG it is an act of pure folly. Niche Companies that go up against the big boys are eaten alive. If the company does not get say 10% of the market it will go bankrupt.

For a discussion of Niche Companies see "Innovation and Entrepreneurship" by Peter F. Drucker. Another appropriate book is "Managing for Results".

Sci-Fi channel may survive if it changes a small niche for a bigger niche. The 3 types of viewer may provide the bigger niche. Particularly if they can discover the sorts of products each type buys.
 
Almost. She wants any viewers. Since there are a hell of a lot more mainstream viewers than SF viewers in the population, it's only common sense to target the mainstream.

WRONG it is an act of pure folly. Niche Companies that go up against the big boys are eaten alive. If the company does not get say 10% of the market it will go bankrupt.

For a discussion of Niche Companies see "Innovation and Entrepreneurship" by Peter F. Drucker. Another appropriate book is "Managing for Results".

Sci-Fi channel may survive if it changes a small niche for a bigger niche. The 3 types of viewer may provide the bigger niche. Particularly if they can discover the sorts of products each type buys.

You need a lowercase "b" after your "WRONG."

Check this out.

Audience Goes Off Script in 2002-03

and

Cagers Dominate Cable Ratings

Hurk! There went my cookies. :p :(
 
Almost. She wants any viewers. Since there are a hell of a lot more mainstream viewers than SF viewers in the population, it's only common sense to target the mainstream.

WRONG it is an act of pure folly. Niche Companies that go up against the big boys are eaten alive. If the company does not get say 10% of the market it will go bankrupt.

For a discussion of Niche Companies see "Innovation and Entrepreneurship" by Peter F. Drucker. Another appropriate book is "Managing for Results".

Sci-Fi channel may survive if it changes a small niche for a bigger niche. The 3 types of viewer may provide the bigger niche. Particularly if they can discover the sorts of products each type buys.

You need a lowercase "b" after your "WRONG."

Check this out.

Audience Goes Off Script in 2002-03

and

Cagers Dominate Cable Ratings

Hurk! There went my cookies. :p :(
 
And here I was tempted to ask ElScorcho not to be snippy towards you. :p

Sorry about my tone. Got a little carried away. Banging my head against a brick wall tends to do that... :)

But, again, in your arguments you keep talking about the quality of the programs. And I keep insisting that you're absolutely right about the poor quality, but that it doesn't matter. The only things that matter are generating the audience to generate revenues, and keeping the costs down. And I can't think of any more ways to say this...

Maybe they have people gather the data, but it sure looks like they can't interpret it. Either that or they're zeroing in on the demographic that appears in Jay Leno's "Jay Walking" and "Point" segments.

Don't watch Leno, but I can guess what you're talking about. :)

When "demographics" are discussed, the characteristics under consideration are sex, age, and ethnic group. And that's about it. A small amount of other information is sometimes available but is generally ignored except by advertisers with specific targets.

Intelligence level isn't available in the data. (In some data, Education Level is included, but that's not the same thing.) But even if Intelligence was there, it'd be a pretty good bet that the advertisers would pay more for lower intelligence, since those would normally be the people more likely to be influenced by the advertising.

Note the use of the word "expect" in my sentence above. What brain-damaged people would expect Farscape fans to stay tuned in for Dream Team, Scare Tactics and Tremors: The Series?

I think you missed the point that it can also be stated the opposite way: What brain-damaged people would expect Dream Team, Scare Tactics, and Tremors viewers to stay tuned in for Farscape?

And since they have a lot more of the crap available, and it's cheaper and close enough in audience that the profit margin is better, it's a whole lot easier to keep the boatloads of crap and jettison the one quality show that doesn't fit in. Especially since when one particular piece of the crap doesn't work out, it's a lot quicker and easier to develop a replacement.

So, if you have a good, respectable show that hasn't wrapped up, one that even the critics like, you throw it out and keep the garbage that was around it? Doesn't it make more sense to throw out the garbage?

From their perspective, it isn't garbage. Because, again, quality doesn't matter.

They're damaging the sci-fi genre. They're reinforcing the stereotypes. They're causing long term harm to the genre. This is happening at a time when the genre is at a low ebb, on life support as it is. They're kicking it while it's down.

At a low ebb? On life support? I don't know if I agree with that. I'm not sure you can make an argument that the genre is in worse shape now than it was in the mid-70's, before Star Wars. Or even the mid-80's, before ST:TNG. And if you include Fantasy, looking at the success of the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter films makes things look better than ever.

If they show quality programming, they can make money. They just need to know how to air the quality programming.

Perhaps. But if they show crap, they can also make money, and without having to worry about all those rules and conditions you supply. So why should they make things more difficult on themselves?

Shouldn't this communicate something to Sci-Fi? Hint: Maybe people really don't like cheap schlock. :eek:

On the other hand, they can look at the success of Joe Millionaire (#3 network show for the season), and American Idol (#5 and #6 shows), and The Bachlorette (#14), and The Bachelor (#18), not to mention Pro Wrestling (routinely among the top-rated cable shows), and come to a quite solid conclusion that people really do like cheap schlock, and they just need to keep trying different cheap schlock until they get it right.
 
And here I was tempted to ask ElScorcho not to be snippy towards you. :p

Sorry about my tone. Got a little carried away. Banging my head against a brick wall tends to do that... :)

But, again, in your arguments you keep talking about the quality of the programs. And I keep insisting that you're absolutely right about the poor quality, but that it doesn't matter. The only things that matter are generating the audience to generate revenues, and keeping the costs down. And I can't think of any more ways to say this...

Maybe they have people gather the data, but it sure looks like they can't interpret it. Either that or they're zeroing in on the demographic that appears in Jay Leno's "Jay Walking" and "Point" segments.

Don't watch Leno, but I can guess what you're talking about. :)

When "demographics" are discussed, the characteristics under consideration are sex, age, and ethnic group. And that's about it. A small amount of other information is sometimes available but is generally ignored except by advertisers with specific targets.

Intelligence level isn't available in the data. (In some data, Education Level is included, but that's not the same thing.) But even if Intelligence was there, it'd be a pretty good bet that the advertisers would pay more for lower intelligence, since those would normally be the people more likely to be influenced by the advertising.

Note the use of the word "expect" in my sentence above. What brain-damaged people would expect Farscape fans to stay tuned in for Dream Team, Scare Tactics and Tremors: The Series?

I think you missed the point that it can also be stated the opposite way: What brain-damaged people would expect Dream Team, Scare Tactics, and Tremors viewers to stay tuned in for Farscape?

And since they have a lot more of the crap available, and it's cheaper and close enough in audience that the profit margin is better, it's a whole lot easier to keep the boatloads of crap and jettison the one quality show that doesn't fit in. Especially since when one particular piece of the crap doesn't work out, it's a lot quicker and easier to develop a replacement.

So, if you have a good, respectable show that hasn't wrapped up, one that even the critics like, you throw it out and keep the garbage that was around it? Doesn't it make more sense to throw out the garbage?

From their perspective, it isn't garbage. Because, again, quality doesn't matter.

They're damaging the sci-fi genre. They're reinforcing the stereotypes. They're causing long term harm to the genre. This is happening at a time when the genre is at a low ebb, on life support as it is. They're kicking it while it's down.

At a low ebb? On life support? I don't know if I agree with that. I'm not sure you can make an argument that the genre is in worse shape now than it was in the mid-70's, before Star Wars. Or even the mid-80's, before ST:TNG. And if you include Fantasy, looking at the success of the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter films makes things look better than ever.

If they show quality programming, they can make money. They just need to know how to air the quality programming.

Perhaps. But if they show crap, they can also make money, and without having to worry about all those rules and conditions you supply. So why should they make things more difficult on themselves?

Shouldn't this communicate something to Sci-Fi? Hint: Maybe people really don't like cheap schlock. :eek:

On the other hand, they can look at the success of Joe Millionaire (#3 network show for the season), and American Idol (#5 and #6 shows), and The Bachlorette (#14), and The Bachelor (#18), not to mention Pro Wrestling (routinely among the top-rated cable shows), and come to a quite solid conclusion that people really do like cheap schlock, and they just need to keep trying different cheap schlock until they get it right.
 
Geez, this discussion is depressing. I know that Martin Roth is just trying to tell it like it really is, but it doesn't mean I like it. I don't think the TV-scene has ever been this bad (and I've been around awhile--I will be 40 this year). There has always been a lot of junk on TV, but I could usually find something to watch somewhere. These days, I can't even find that one show to watch. I'm so disgusted with the way the Nielsen ratings work that I'm watching anime DVDs more & more. The anime scene is driven almost entirely by DVD sales, since most anime shows never get on US TV. I like the fact that I can bypass the Nielsens by watching anime DVDs. Even so, I wish I could still watch regular TV without being so frustrated. I cannot understand why I always seem to be the viewer the networks don't want. I think of myself as pretty ordinary. If you saw me in a crowd, I wouldn't particularly stand out. I guess I just like to use my mind more than the average viewer, & I like to discover new things. I like innovation.

I would be willing to pay a fee if it would mean getting better shows. If that's what it takes, I will do it. *Anything* to get away from all the garbage out there!

Tammy
 
Geez, this discussion is depressing. I know that Martin Roth is just trying to tell it like it really is, but it doesn't mean I like it. I don't think the TV-scene has ever been this bad (and I've been around awhile--I will be 40 this year). There has always been a lot of junk on TV, but I could usually find something to watch somewhere. These days, I can't even find that one show to watch. I'm so disgusted with the way the Nielsen ratings work that I'm watching anime DVDs more & more. The anime scene is driven almost entirely by DVD sales, since most anime shows never get on US TV. I like the fact that I can bypass the Nielsens by watching anime DVDs. Even so, I wish I could still watch regular TV without being so frustrated. I cannot understand why I always seem to be the viewer the networks don't want. I think of myself as pretty ordinary. If you saw me in a crowd, I wouldn't particularly stand out. I guess I just like to use my mind more than the average viewer, & I like to discover new things. I like innovation.

I would be willing to pay a fee if it would mean getting better shows. If that's what it takes, I will do it. *Anything* to get away from all the garbage out there!

Tammy
 

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