Scriptbook #15 Discussion - SPOILER WARNING

[vacantlook]

So, the final of the Babylon 5 scriptbooks are being shipped. Some, like me, have received them, some continue to wait for delivery. The 15th volume was a bonus to those who bought all previous 14 volumes, and contained in it is an outline writeup of what would have happened in the show had Sinclair remained the main character. Here's a thread to discuss that outline (and any other part of the 15th scriptbook).

For anyone reading this who doesn't want to be spoiled, here is your warning. This thread will openly discuss the contents of the aforementioned outline. If you are awaiting your copy of volume 15 and don't want to be spoiled on its contents, as Kosh says in "Signs And Portents", "Go. Leave. Now." Otherwise, bring on the discussions!

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Will do ... erm ... as soon as my book arrives.

 

[vacantlook]

As I said, there'll be spoilers in this thread, so here's one from me.





The biggest surprise, to me, was that the original plan did NOT have Sinclair becoming Valen. I've more or less always assumed his becoming Valen was in the plan from the beginning, but this outline states otherwise.

 

[Truth_Seeker]

The biggest surprise, to me, was that the original plan did NOT have Sinclair becoming Valen. I've more or less always assumed his becoming Valen was in the plan from the beginning, but this outline states otherwise.

That's a big surprise indeed.Are there more of those?

 

[vacantlook]

That's a big surprise indeed.Are there more of those?

The Vorlons and the Shadows were not forced out of the galaxy due to our heroes' understanding their conflict; in fact the Vorlons and Shadows didn't leave the galaxy at all by the end of Babylon 5. The description of the two seem like they weren't exactly two sides of a philosophical battle, ie order vs chaos. It seemed more like the Shadows, who in this outline sound like they're younger than the Vorlons, just don't like the Vorlons' having manipulated younger races to think they were beings of light, so the Shadows set about to bring the Vorlons down, and in the process set themselves up as rulers of the galaxy instead. jms makes the comment, in describing the Shadows, that it's like the old line of bewaring those that would save you from communism less they also save you from democracy at the same time.

The destruction of B5 at the end of the show wasn't a peaceful one like we got in the show as it stands, but instead was destroyed by the Minbari, now being ruled by the Warrior Caste, who were pissed off over Delenn having had a child with Sinclair, after they had forced the Grey Council into exile. Those who supported Delenn's move to have a child with Sinclair believed the child would prophetically bring about a rebirth of the Minbari species through combining the Minbari and Human species together. And the end of the show would have been Sinclair, Delenn, and their infant son fleeing B5 as the Minbari blew it up.

And then after Babylon 5, had the show been successful, there could be a spinoff called Babylon Prime that involved Sinclair and Delenn going back in time and pulling Babylon 4 forward in time, renaming it Babylon Prime, and using it to protect themselves against pretty much everyone in the galaxy that wanted to kill them for one reason or another.

There are other pieces that are different, but those are the ones that stand out the most to me.

 

[Truth_Seeker]

I think that the actual story arc is much better than the original one.It's more complicated and we would not have Sheridan and the concept of the The One(Sinclair,Delenn and Sheridan).So it's better that JMS changed it.

 

[vacantlook]

Another thing I like about the 15th volume is the "Joe Cuts" section, compiled by the very illustrious Jan Schroeder. As jms says in his introduction to the "Joe Cuts" section, "Jan Schroeder is insane." She went through every script in these scriptbooks along side the episode on the DVD as it stands, and drew up a HUGE chart detailing all the differences between the scripts and the episodes as broadcast.

One such difference that really intrigues me is one from "Severed Dreams" that Jan mentions in her introduction to her comprehensive list of differences. When Delenn shows up to fend off the Earthforce ships and protect B5, she lets B5 know that she's "invited some others", eventually revealed in a huge jumppoint opening and a Vorlon fleet coming out. I have the scriptbooks, but I haven't read all the scripts, so little differences like this I've missed. Having this big list drawn up is very intriguing, especially in revealing little things written but not included in episodes like this.

 

[vacantlook]

I think that the actual story arc is much better than the original one....

I agree; after having read this, as intriguing as it was, I do like the story the show got more.

 

[Truth_Seeker]

When Delenn shows up to fend off the Earthforce ships and protect B5, she lets B5 know that she's "invited some others", eventually revealed in a huge jumppoint opening and a Vorlon fleet coming out.

This would be a great fun to watch but it also would make our fellows in B5 very powerful with such a protection and a part of the story's suspense would be lost this way.

 

[Jan]

Thanks, VL. I'm glad you like it. It was a lot of fun to do and a huge honor that they decided to include it in Volume 15.

Jan
'the insane'

 

[vacantlook]

As I was reading through the book, I came across that opening line from jms (the one about Jan being "insane") in that section and my mind did a bit of a double take. I remember an announcement about the list being included in this book, but I don't remember if your being the one to draw up that list was part of that announcment. So, I was pleasantly surprised to see your name all up in there.

The amount of time and attention that had to go into watching, reading, comparing, and writing the list is very indicative of your dedication to and expression of the joy you derive from this show. So, thank you Jan for all your hard work.

 

[Ninja_Squirrel]

I received volumes 14 & 15 today. I might have to read the original story arc chapter again and let it sink in before commenting further.

But, I gotta say, I'm surprised what the original arc was going to be. It sounds much less epic, philosophical, and profound than how things actually turned out. It also sounds like the first five years would have been somewhat dependent on a spinoff series to be totally fulfilling. I'm very glad that both JMS and Michael O'Hare had mutual reservations about the Sinclair character so that we could get Sheridan starting in season two. That alone opened up a better direction for the show.

 

[Clark Kent]

For us poor souls, who weren't able to buy the entire script set, could someone please provide a synopsis of the original outline?

 

[hypatia]

The biggest surprise, to me, was that the original plan did NOT have Sinclair becoming Valen. I've more or less always assumed his becoming Valen was in the plan from the beginning, but this outline states otherwise.

Wow. That has always seemed to be the fundamental "wait until you see what I've had planned all along" moment in the series. It's a complete shock to me that it was one of the many rewrites on the series.

I mean... Wow. It just goes to show you: don't get too attached to your ideas... you want to be open for even better ones to come along.

But that's a real zinger, it is.

 

[Chris Springob]

My scriptbooks #14 & 15 haven't arrived yet. Hopefully, they'll arrive today. However, one thing I should point out about the synopsis of the "original story arc".....there really is no such thing as "the original story arc". JMS came up with the idea for the story way back in, what? 1986? But then it took years to flesh it out, and he kept making changes along the way. There were more changes before "The Gathering" was made, and before and during the production of the series. As I understand it, the core idea of the story stayed the same, but there were an awful lot of changes made. So the synopsis in Script book 15 is just (as I understand it) a snapshot in time of what the story looked like around the time "The Gathering" was produced. But there were other iterations of the story that existed before that, so it's not exactly "the original arc".

 

[A_M_Swallow]

The biggest surprise, to me, was that the original plan did NOT have Sinclair becoming Valen. I've more or less always assumed his becoming Valen was in the plan from the beginning, but this outline states otherwise.

Was Valen even mentioned in the first season?

 

[Truth_Seeker]

Was Valen even mentioned in the first season?

I think his name was mentioned only once in S1 in "Babylon Squared" in the beginning of Delenn's speech before the Grey Council-"Summoned I come.In Valen's name..."

Maybe JMS didn't want to reveal much about Valen so early in the series and he chose not to mention his name until that.

 

[maneth]

And of course in the re-cut version of The Gathering, Kosh greets Sinclair "Entil'zha Valen". But that was done later.

 

[Mike G]

There were more changes before "The Gathering" was made, and before and during the production of the series. As I understand it, the core idea of the story stayed the same, but there were an awful lot of changes made. So the synopsis in Script book 15 is just (as I understand it) a snapshot in time of what the story looked like around the time "The Gathering" was produced. But there were other iterations of the story that existed before that, so it's not exactly "the original arc".

Thats my question, when was the "original" outline written? When JMS first came up with the story, or when The Gathering was in production? I can't imagine it was the different as late as the end of the first season.

 

[PillowRock]

Thats my question, when was the "original" outline written?

My impression, though it certainly bears rechecking the intro to that section, was that the version that appears was written down after the pilot and before the series went into production.