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Suggestion: Change our expectations

GKarsEye

GKarsEye

Regular
Hey all, the wise and mighty GKarsEye checking in to offer a friendly suggestion to us crazy fans.

With all the hubbub around the upcoming Rangers movie, the reviews, the criticisms, etc going on, I think we need to step back and evaluate our expectations for what this thing will be.

I contend that it's OK if this movie isn't good. As much as we're looking forward to it, I think there's really something else we want: a series.

As far as I'm concerned, the point of this movie is to act as a stepping stone to a series. I really don't expect it to floor me, and I don't even care that much.

Yes, I know the success of the movie has something to do with whether or not it goes to series. So, our hope should be not that the Rangers movie is great, but that it gets us a series, whatever that means. Whatever this movie is, I'm sure worse has been thrown onto TV and been turned into a series.

JMS and the Babylon franchise isn't about TV movies. It's about engaging, quality serial television. Even if, hypothetically, the Rangers movie sucks ass, I'm confident that the series would be great, because that's their forte, what they know how to do.

It just seems to me that people are expecting this thing to be something amazing, or save their souls or some such. Chill out, folks.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
It's too late to save my soul, buddy!

I have realistic expectations. The thing about Babylon 5, is that it's greater than the sum of it's parts. If you analyze every episode piece by piece, you realize that there are imperfections laced throughout. For example, "The Long Twilight Struggle" one of my all-time favorites is saddled with some goofy John Schuck - Draal material. I don't need him lightening up a pivotal, gut-wrenching episode!

But somehow, when all the pieces came together, there was an attraction that stayed indellibly in our minds. We're still hooked on it.

Sure, I would love to fall head over heals for the film but I doubt that would happen. The past B5 films have ranged from near-perfect (In the Beginning) to near-forgettable (River of Souls). My only hopes for Rangers was for it to be a well plotted, intelligent, and entertaining film that would keep my interest and illustrate to the people at SciFi the potential for a series.

I just want it to be good. Good enough.
I definitely don't want it to suck hard.
That would be bad.

I'm dismayed by the reviews of Pike and Glen, because their criticisms seem pointed and any malice appeared to be grounded out of disappointment, not Trek worship.

Warren may not even be such a good judge of what B5 fans will like because if he hasn't seen the series, he doesn't really know B5 yet.
I also find it interesting that the review from the Trek fan was positive, while the review from the two professed B5 fans was negative.

You can tell who has the higher expectations.









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"When something we value is destroyed, we rebuild it. If it's destroyed again we rebuild it again. And again, and again, and again. Until it stays. "
~Jeffrey Sinclair
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
With all the hubbub around the upcoming Rangers movie, the reviews, the criticisms, etc going on, I think we need to step back and evaluate our expectations for what this thing will be.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True!


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I contend that it's OK if this movie isn't good. As much as we're looking forward to it, I think there's really something else we want: a series.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not quite, but close. The most important thing about the new movie is that it attracts new viewers to the B5 universe, i.e. grows the ranks of B5 universe fans, and makes 'em want more.

New viewers want to be entertained and to see a well made movie with great CGI and great music. We, B5 fans, want more though. We want lots of detail, complexities, threads, tie-ins to the rest of B5, foreshadowing dropped in, etc., etc. We'll get that in a series, but we should not expect it in the pilot movie.

Think of how you feel about showing The Gathering to a newbie. Having seen all of B5, aren't there some areas of The Gathering that positively make you wince? There are for me! With this in mind, I think that from what I've heard, and the B5:LotR trailers I've seen and heard, To Live and Die in Starlight might very well be more successful at attracting newbies to the B5 universe than The Gathering.

To Live and Die in Starlight is not as much for us, as it is for new people. We'll get ours when it goes to a series.
smile.gif



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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
Good point, KoshN. The movie will probably be an action-adventure flick, making it easier for newcomers to enjoy it and be less intimidated if they missed the B5 story arc, something that I was wary of when I first started to watch B5.

I just wanted to clear something up for the actors, cast, crew, and anyone else involved with production of the Rangers movie who may be reading this: neither myself, nor anyone else, is saying that the movie will be bad. In fact, I expect to enjoy it very much and am confident you all did a fine job. I was just addressing the critics, fans, and people who may be looking to get something out of the movie that isn't being offered and therefore setting themselves up for dissappointment no matter how the movie is. The hypothetical situation of "if the movie sucks ass" was only the worst case possible scenario, which I'm sure won't happen.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B5_Obsessed:
I'm dismayed by the reviews of Pike and Glen, because their criticisms seem pointed and any malice appeared to be grounded out of disappointment, not Trek worship.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know why you're dismayed (w.r.t Glen's post). It makes perfect sense to me (and you, below). You have to realize what his, and longtime B5 fans expectations are.

I've had an email exchange with Glen since the post he put up on this board, and I'm more convinced than ever that To Live and Die in Starlight will be great for newbies to see, and bring them into the B5 fold. That's what B5 needs, a GROWING fanbase. We'll get the stuff we're used to in the Rangers series.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I also find it interesting that the review from the Trek fan was positive, while the review from the two professed B5 fans was negative.

You can tell who has the higher expectations.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

EXACTLY! The B5 fans, expect A LOT, and we're used to getting it. However, newbies won't appreciate all the stuff we like. They don't have the background. To Live and Die in Starlight has to be something that newbies will like. It doesn't have to be something that completely satisfies all the old hand B5 fans.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/


[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 23, 2001).]
 
Like I was saying, if Glen said it was okay, not great but okay, I wouldn't be bothered much. I just worry when he says he really didn't like it at all.

As for me, of course, I'll be in front of the pl' tee-vee come January regardless.

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"When something we value is destroyed, we rebuild it. If it's destroyed again we rebuild it again. And again, and again, and again. Until it stays. "
~Jeffrey Sinclair
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B5_Obsessed:
Like I was saying, if Glen said it was okay, not great but okay, I wouldn't be bothered much. I just worry when he says he really didn't like it at all.

As for me, of course, I'll be in front of the pl' tee-vee come January regardless.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As with anybody, it depends what your expectations are going into the movie. If you expect perfection, you'll likely be disappointed. This would be the case with any movie.

If you go into a movie, expecting it to be OK, often times, you're pleasently surprised.

We can't expect the movie to be everything B5 was, and more. They only have 90 minutes. In the Beginning was great partially because of what we fans knew about the rest of the series. TLaDiS is intended to bring in new viewers, who don't have our background. As such, TLaDiS can't be something to completely satisfy hard core fans. For us, it's the hors d'oeuvre. The series will be the main course.
smile.gif


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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited October 23, 2001).]
 
Gkarseye is so right about this.

And of course it's silly to expect grandiose B5 greatness in a pilot that's an introduction to a NEW series that should have it's OWN flavor, and stories to be told.
(look at the UK version of the Gathering and you can't tell me it was comparable to third season eps)

It seems too often critics want it to be innovative and groundbreaking, but also exactly like the old B5. That's the wrong outlook to have, it's like a self fulfilling prophecy of disappointment.

Obviously I am one of those fans that loved Crusade as a series in its own right and I believe it was already showing great promise and depth in those first 13 eps.

For me the debacle was the series ending prematurely, not the finished product screened.

Those of us who want an exact B5 clone may be bitterly disappointed. And being a B5 fan does not automatically mean that one is flexible enough to love other stories told in the same universe or in a slightly different way.

Savor the wine, let it develop...it may be young yet, but given it's chance it could be a could become a vintage.



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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> It seems too often critics want it to be innovative and groundbreaking, but also exactly like the old B5. That's the wrong outlook to have, it's like a self fulfilling prophecy of disappointment. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a fantastic way of putting it. As an avid music listener, I can't tell you how much this sort of thing comes up, especially with jazz. It's absolutely absurd.

Ok, this thread is getting a little to friendly for my taste.
laugh.gif


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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
Yeah I know what you mean
laugh.gif
I remember the good old PMS rants and now I'm agreeing with you on two threads!!!

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Sure, B5 was good viewing television, and if their is a Rangers series, it will be too, but if the movies does not get the ratings Scifi expects, than chances for a series will be dimished. So I would think the movie should be kick-ass awesome if there is going to be a series commissioned, and that is what I am hoping for. I want the movie to knock my socks off, and evrybody else's as well so there is a greater possibilty that there will be a series in the first place.

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RW, the salad ambassador. Visit my salad bar forum at www.b5rangers.net
 
Unfortunately if you don't have a ratings box and can tune into that channel to watch it...whether the show rocked or didn't will be a moot point.



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Based on what I've seen and heard so far, I'm expecting a movie with a fair amount of action, good CGI, a likeable cast and crew, and a plot which will make the fans want to know more about these characters.

I don't expect a masterpiece, or any great connection with the Babylon 5 we all know and love. All I want is a tv movie that will hold my interest for two hours, and will be equally enjoyable to newcomers to this scene.
smile.gif


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Oh yes we have forgotten about the fun
crazy.gif
. So has Joe. I can just
imagine the how miserable Joe is as writes
his stories.

Blanket statements like that do nothing but undermine what little credibility you may have have left.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by westtim:
Oh yes we have forgotten about the fun
crazy.gif
. So has Joe. I can just
imagine the how miserable Joe is as writes
his stories.

Blanket statements like that do nothing but undermine what little credibility you may have have left.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exhibit A.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tobias Clutch:
Well, considering it's the same make-up

But for different people. You can't use the same headbone for different people, just because they're both Minbari. However, if they screw up the way they make the Minbari look, than we can call them on that mistake, but I don't think that will happen.

the same basic effects

The effects have changed throughout B5, were very different in Crusade, and will be different in Rangers. Just because all three have "ships blowing up" doesn't mean it's the same.

the same basic sets

Not at all. When was the Liandra used in B5? What about all of the planets and exotic locations the characters will visit. The only set that is the same is the Babylon 5 station, which still has to be rebuilt. It's not like they have it laying around in an attic somewhere.

some pre-established characters

Who, G'Kar? All of the characters are new except one.

and organizations

The Rangers were around before, but explored very little in B5. They will be the primary focus of the movie/series. All that really stays the same is the name.

hmmm - the same writer/creator...

See my earlier post about novel series

Please note that I'm not defending the movie, since I haven't seen it. I'm criticising the pre-conceived, unrealistic expectations that some have. If you want to be dissappointed, you will be. It is the nature self-destructive nature of fandom.

Honestly, compared to other things, B5 fans aren't that bad. Sure, some are insane, but in general, I've seen people be pretty cool about this stuff. For example, JMS has criticised some of his own episodes, and we laughed with him. Some episodes he has praised, and many of us have not. "Grail," for instance, an ep that I make fun of relentlessly, but in good fun. "Intersections in Real Time" is one that many dislike, but I think it's one of the best in the series. I don't know what JMS had to say about it, but I don't really care.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> The only set that is the same is the Babylon 5 station, which still has to be rebuilt. It's not like they have it laying around in an attic somewhere.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I think they DO. A Warehouse, somewhere.
Plus, A lot of the station is Computer Models. They didn't lose those.
In fact, all the way up to the last episode, they kept adding Detail to them according to comments from some of the people who worked on them.
People tend to Do that when they enjoy their work.
cool.gif


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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
 
Many people think Dune should never have gone beyond the first novel. As a case in point, try asking the Sci-Fi Channel how financing on the Dune follow-up miniseries is going, even though the first mini-series was successful for them.

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ok, bakana, so they have the sets. It's a minor point. Most of the movie doesn't happen on the station, if I'm not mistaken. Let's not get hung up on these little details.

Ok, I probably shouldn't have used Dune as an example, as I have not yet read it. But my point is still valid. The last book in the Wheel of Time series, for example, was not as good as the two that came before it. But that's OK.

Was every Star Wars movie better than the one before it? What about every Led Zeppelin album?

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
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