The Babylon 5 Preservation Project

[Springer]

Involved? Not in the least. I stated what I wanted to state - sort of the purpose of forms, as I recall. But you called it "feedback", a term that usually would include it being directed at somebody who might respond to your concerns.

I didn't say a word about what the book is like or what's in it - that's not my place. I simply responded to what you said.

Fair enough, I should have used a different word to feedback as I wasn't literally expecting Jason Davis to read this message board, nor is it really my place to give him feedback on a project I've not seen yet, plus I doubt he'd want some random person on the Internet telling him what to write. However, my concerns based on what little information I have still stand and I'm allowed to espouse them in a conversation on a message board. Four books is a lot of money, especially with shipping to the UK costing almost as much as the book itself, so yes I'm going to hold this project to a high standard. If I think the final product is good then I will get all four books if finances allow.

But I would also say to him to write the book he wants to write, regardless, and I and other readers will either like it or not and buy the other 3 books or not.

 

[Jan]

Fair enough, I should have used a different word to feedback as I wasn't literally expecting Jason Davis to read this message board, nor is it really my place to give him feedback on a project I've not seen yet, plus I doubt he'd want some random person on the Internet telling him what to write. However, my concerns based on what little information I have still stand and I'm allowed to espouse them in a conversation on a message board. Four books is a lot of money, especially with shipping to the UK costing almost as much as the book itself, so yes I'm going to hold this project to a high standard. If I think the final product is good then I will get all four books if finances allow.

But I would also say to him to write the book he wants to write, regardless, and I and other readers will either like it or not and buy the other 3 books or not.

Ouch - yeah, my sympathies on the shipping costs to the UK. It's gotten really bad! Voicing concerns is valid, too. I'm afraid I took your "...cramming the book..." to be a way of saying you thought he might be padding things; and while I expect far more detail than anybody ever expected, I can guarantee that this is going to be THE best researched document about the show that could be imagined. Will all of it be of interest to you? I'm sure it won't be. Nor to me. But I truly feel that the show deserves this level of documentation.

Anyway, it let me play with my script collection again!

 

[Springer]

Ouch - yeah, my sympathies on the shipping costs to the UK. It's gotten really bad! Voicing concerns is valid, too. I'm afraid I took your "...cramming the book..." to be a way of saying you thought he might be padding things; and while I expect far more detail than anybody ever expected, I can guarantee that this is going to be THE best researched document about the show that could be imagined. Will all of it be of interest to you? I'm sure it won't be. Nor to me. But I truly feel that the show deserves this level of documentation.

Anyway, it let me play with my script collection again!

Ah, by cramming I actually meant the opposite – cramming it so full of detail it potentially becomes impenetrable. I was probably a bit harsh in my statements. I appreciate it's difficult to get the balance right between brevity and detail. I can tell from the updates it's going to be the best researched book of probably any TV show.

I'm just going to shut up now, I do wish Jason luck in writing the book and we'll wait and see what it's like when the first one is published.

 

[LateArrival]

Poked mynose around past messages and found The One where he discusses the number of book/s and reasoning behind it. For reference it is " Briefing #237 — 26 August 2024 ".

He mentions not realizing how MUCH information he would accumulate during the course of his research, and one (possibly two) books has thus grown to four. Turns out second book doesn't end at Season 5. Tentatively it is:

Book 1: Through the end of Season One
Book 2: Through the end of Season Three
Book 3: Through the end of Season Five + first two films
Book 4: Last two films + Crusade, LOTR, TLT


For those who are following along and did NOT get in during the kickstarter/briefings (I made it by something like two days), some information is on the original kickstarter site.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1387618382/the-babylon-5-preservation-project - goals, etc.

Went with the Two Book level as was hoping for multiple books and with days remaining everything above that level had already been snapped up .

" Finally, there's a chance that the information gathered during this project will yield more than one book of 400 to 500 pages. I don't think this is a likely scenario, because I'd rather have a single book from which great content was cut than two volumes that could be accused of being padded to reach their page counts. But if two solid volumes are required to tell the story, all the one-book levels will get the first book with the option of purchasing the second at a discount. Folks at the $90 and $150 levels would either get two copies of the first book or one of each volume. At the end of the day, two new books on B5 is a great problem to have. "


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1387618382/the-babylon-5-preservation-project/comments - questions from backers.

One of Jason's replies (1 year ago) is:

" 2) There won't be a further Kickstarter for the second volume. As noted in the original Kickstarter pitch, I knew there was a good chance that I'd have sufficient material for two solid books. A number of backers pledged at a level that would grant them either two copies of a single-volume release or a copy each of Volumes 1 and 2, so there's a precedent to draw upon. I'll be working on these logistics once Volume 2 catches up to Volume 1 and I can work with concrete weights and production/mailing statistics. "

" Thank you for your support. If I only manage to convey A QUARTER of the material I've gathered in these almost-200 interviews, I think you will be pleased with the result. "

 

[Ubik]

Ah, by cramming I actually meant the opposite – cramming it so full of detail it potentially becomes impenetrable. I was probably a bit harsh in my statements. I appreciate it's difficult to get the balance right between brevity and detail. I can tell from the updates it's going to be the best researched book of probably any TV show.

I'm just going to shut up now, I do wish Jason luck in writing the book and we'll wait and see what it's like when the first one is published.

Nah, I think it's a fair concern. I'd prefer a well edited, well paced, single book over 4 books that could potentially suffer from cramming in every minutiae. See no issues with discussing this. A Kickstarter should also deliver what you signed up for in a timely fashion.

Maybe repost your original post / comments here to the Kickstarter comments section if that's possible.

 

[LateArrival]

While I'd appreciate any well written B5 Book, four is better than one, rather than having information about the story of B5 being lost and forgotten. If The Virus and Writer's Strike hadn't taken place things would be further along, but the longer period has allowed him time to track down additional people for interviews so Good Things Come To Those Who Wait. Plus we've had 250-ish update emails to read while waiting.

A good example of Leave-It-In-Or-Take-It-Out is the Special Edtion LoTR films as have always thought the longer versions were far superior, although have heard differing opinions on the decision to not include The Scouring of the Shire and instead go with the umpteen happy endings. Then again, my favorite B5 script book is 2.5, which is 90% dedicated to Points of Departure using multiple script versions. Of course, the first episode I ever watched was PoD, so am a bit biased . ...and I think there was a "negative review" of the B5 Encyclopedia on Amazon which apparently complained it wasn't easy to read since it was just a bunch of definitions and stuff (similar to what one might find in an Encyclopedia).

 

[Ubik]

While I'd appreciate any well written B5 Book, four is better than one, rather than having information about the story of B5 being lost and forgotten. If The Virus and Writer's Strike hadn't taken place things would be further along, but the longer period has allowed him time to track down additional people for interviews so Good Things Come To Those Who Wait. Plus we've had 250-ish update emails to read while waiting.

A good example of Leave-It-In-Or-Take-It-Out is the Special Edtion LoTR films as have always thought the longer versions were far superior, although have heard differing opinions on the decision to not include The Scouring of the Shire and instead go with the umpteen happy endings. Then again, my favorite B5 script book is 2.5, which is 90% dedicated to Points of Departure using multiple script versions. Of course, the first episode I ever watched was PoD, so am a bit biased . ...and I think there was a "negative review" of the B5 Encyclopedia on Amazon which apparently complained it wasn't easy to read since it was just a bunch of definitions and stuff (similar to what one might find in an Encyclopedia).

All valid. We are definitely at the opposite ends of the spectrum. I requested a refund on Vol. 2.5 as I was pretty unimpressed with how flimsy a concept it was for a book. The Encyclopaedia also seemed like a bit of a futile effort to me. I can just watch the show. But, I realise there is an audience for this stuff. Each to their own.

 

[Springer]

All valid. We are definitely at the opposite ends of the spectrum. I requested a refund on Vol. 2.5 as I was pretty unimpressed with how flimsy a concept it was for a book. The Encyclopaedia also seemed like a bit of a futile effort to me. I can just watch the show. But, I realise there is an audience for this stuff. Each to their own.

I think I actually bought your copy of 2.5 from you. I didn't get it when it was originally released I think because of finances, but I had no idea there were two versions of PoD so I was quite curious. There was also the CD that came with it, whether that was enough to balance out the price I don't know. Was it the same price as the other script books?

Cost is definitely a consideration when discussing the worth of these books. They're always going to be a little more expensive because of their small print runs and the nature of self-publishing, but at the same time you want value for money. I think the move to putting some of the books on Amazon is a good one in helping to keep the price down and removing the shipping costs. I'm just glad I got volumes 1 to 15 when I did.

 

[Jan]

Cost is definitely a consideration when discussing the worth of these books.

When looking at costs (or worth), something to keep in mind also is that the cost of paper has skyrocketed. Granted, I don't have figures for printers, but simple copy paper is up $18.39/case since 2022.

 

[Springer]

When looking at costs (or worth), something to keep in mind also is that the cost of paper has skyrocketed. Granted, I don't have figures for printers, but simple copy paper is up $18.39/case since 2022.

Of course, don't forget I work in publishing. Our cover prices keep having to go up in response to printing and paper costs. But everytime our price goes up, we lose readers because people's earnings are not rising at the same rate. Book prices seem to have stabilised a bit because they have longer lead times and can source less expensive paper, but newspapers and magazines are more exposed to these cost fluctuations. I assume B5books is print on demand as they won't want to have to store hundreds of books, so they might also be more vulnerable to the paper price rises.

But then again, the cost of everything is going up. The way of the world these days. People have to choose what they can afford and what is worth it to them.

 

[LateArrival]

All valid. We are definitely at the opposite ends of the spectrum. I requested a refund on Vol. 2.5 as I was pretty unimpressed with how flimsy a concept it was for a book. The Encyclopaedia also seemed like a bit of a futile effort to me. I can just watch the show. But, I realise there is an audience for this stuff. Each to their own.

My take on the Encyclopedia has changed with the release of the digital/online version. While I am all for having a physical book around as those work without power or an internet connection, with the the online version there is no flipping between books or pages and it can be updated whenever new material (TRH?) is available. Plus the various items are linked, so if Item 547 is referenced while reading about Item 345, can seamlessly switch between them. Same with B5 at Twenty, as the online version has the pictures in significantly higher resolutions. Also purchased the (now hopelessly out of date) Trek Encyclopedia as well, and have opened that all of four times.

 

[Jan]

Of course, don't forget I work in publishing. Our cover prices keep having to go up in response to printing and paper costs. But everytime our price goes up, we lose readers because people's earnings are not rising at the same rate. Book prices seem to have stabilised a bit because they have longer lead times and can source less expensive paper, but newspapers and magazines are more exposed to these cost fluctuations. I assume B5books is print on demand as they won't want to have to store hundreds of books, so they might also be more vulnerable to the paper price rises.

But then again, the cost of everything is going up. The way of the world these days. People have to choose what they can afford and what is worth it to them.

Ah, sorry - if I'd known you work in publishing I'd forgotten. Oops! Of course you're much more aware than I am, then. I'm not sure how B5Books does things these days except that they're moving to all e-books, I think. I'm afraid I've lost track a bit since they moved away from CafePress. I try to keep up but the complexities are beyond this simple bookkeeper

 

[Ubik]

Of course, don't forget I work in publishing. Our cover prices keep having to go up in response to printing and paper costs. But everytime our price goes up, we lose readers because people's earnings are not rising at the same rate. Book prices seem to have stabilised a bit because they have longer lead times and can source less expensive paper, but newspapers and magazines are more exposed to these cost fluctuations. I assume B5books is print on demand as they won't want to have to store hundreds of books, so they might also be more vulnerable to the paper price rises.

But then again, the cost of everything is going up. The way of the world these days. People have to choose what they can afford and what is worth it to them.

It's print on demand via Amazon now. Has been for quite some time. The 'time limited print on demand' oxymoron still cracks me up. The 'warehouse finds' are even better. LOL. FOMO marketing at its best.

 

[Triple F]

It's print on demand via Amazon now. Has been for quite some time. The 'time limited print on demand' oxymoron still cracks me up. The 'warehouse finds' are even better. LOL. FOMO marketing at its best.

The end of offer countdown clock on their site, that kept resetting, is still mine. oh, and the lottery (for recently found books) which everyone who entered won is another.

 

[LateArrival]

The 'warehouse finds' are even better. LOL. FOMO marketing at its best.

I recall they had books in various storage locations as I ordered something from them via Amazon in 2020 but it took a few months to get thanks to The Virus. There was an ebay sale two years ago when they were unloading promotional items, from past conventions, and occasionally they (used to?) buy-back items from customers when the items were still in new condition.

Sometimes there were good deals on ebay - purchased one of the "unopened signed by JD/CC/PT Cast Reunion books in a white wrapper" for around $50-ish, and an "opened" one for even less.

 

[Ubik]

I recall they had books in various storage locations as I ordered something from them via Amazon in 2020 but it took a few months to get thanks to The Virus. There was an ebay sale two years ago when they were unloading promotional items, from past conventions, and occasionally they (used to?) buy-back items from customers when the items were still in new condition.

Sometimes there were good deals on ebay - purchased one of the "unopened signed by JD/CC/PT Cast Reunion books in a white wrapper" for around $50-ish, and an "opened" one for even less.

But there is no 'rarity' except for the original script books. It's all print to demand. Apart from signed books, 'found' stuff was very likely just a reprint via POD. Some of the products I have definitely enjoyed, but I just hate the FOMO marketing. It's what ultimately turned me off the whole thing. Artificial scarcity at its best.

I just got an email about B5 Phone Numbers and I had to double take that I had read it correctly and it wasn't the 1st of April. This has to be a new all time low for the B5 Books operation. Selling phone numbers for hundreds of dollars. I pity anyone that falls for this garbage.