The evil of Alfred Bester

[GKarsEye]

AngelSummers, what can I say? You have shown me the light. Thank you for enlightening me so. I will give up my racist, cruel ways and learn to love all mankind as brothers. Hallelujah!

Now I'm going to church to confess my sins and pray for strength and guidance. Preach on, brother!

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Holy crap!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> B5_Obsessed and G'Karseye, I am appaled at your lack of faith of the moral side of humanity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dont' be. There is more evil going on in the world right at this moment than you or I would care to think about. Yes, humans can do great deeds, but they also commit attrocities by the bushel! My lack of faith in humanity is the only thing about my post that you got right. I don't even watch the evening news because I'm tired of hearing about three-year olds being raped and set on fire.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> If JMS predictions come true, it most likely people like YOU 2 would be part of those lynch mobs crucifying the telepaths. You're all monsters!!! You say it is impossible to live with telepaths. Well, so did the Southern Confederates when Abraham Lincoln abolished slavery. You are racist if you think there is no hope of coexistence. It is this type of thinking that breed fanatics like Osama Bin Laden or any other fanatics for that matter who refuse to believe in peace. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. I don't have a problem with telepaths. There are no telepaths.

2. This was "JMS's prediction", not mine. How do you justify saying that I would be in a lynch mob? Go call JMS a racist, lynch mob monster!

Here's the facts: A recurrent theme in B5 is that a war between mundanes and telepaths is coming. Right? Most telepaths, from Bester to Byron, believe they are the product of evolution. Right? Wade discusses the clash of Neanderthal and CroMagnon on the plains of Carthage. Right? Other races, like the Xon on Centauri Prime and the Hyach'doh were both eradicated in interspecies conflict. Right? Byron wanted a telepath world AWAY from normals. He thought that was the only way the two groups could survive. Both PsiCorp and Edgars saw a coming telepath conflict coming and assumed that whichever side lost would be forever enslaved. They were motivated by fear and self-preservation. I didn't write the stuff. I just report it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Even if this is the current cycle of hatred and vengeance doesn't mean it can't be stopped. You appall me with your attitudes. It's easy to talk about being on top of the food chain when there aren't US bombers in your sky bombing the hell out of you. The Anthrax scares and terrorist attacks are only an inlking of what many Asian countries experience in their ebveryday. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now, what does this have to do with Babylon 5 at all? And besides, my quote about being part of the food chain was a condemnation. Read it again. I stated that we mistreat all the lower species of the Earth because we are at the top of the food chain. In other words, we do it because WE CAN. We sanitize the concept and package it nicely for mass consumption, but we do run slaughterhouses night and day, don't we?

Does this bother anyone except a handful of Vegetarians and vegans?

Not at all.

For the average American: Ignorance is bliss. I won't speak for other countries.

I don't know what you mean about the bombers and Asian countries. You seem to be agreeing with me that humans do shitty things, and do them often.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Evolution my foot. I'll never believe majority of Humans will become hate fanatics like those of you who think there is a superior class of humans. There is only one. Any other thinking is racism and prejudice, something I thought America prided itself to be. Even JMS did not let the likelihood of good humans caring for their fellow telepaths. look at Franklin? I admit Sheridan overlooking Lyta distrubs me but in the end, she was actualy overlooked becoz Sheridan had too much to think off. I believe she would have been treated better if Sheridan had not been pressured by too many things <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, you do remember that this discussion was about the fictional motivations of a fictional sociopath on Babylon 5. For illustration, I compared how humans RIGHT NOW compartmentalize and are able to justify what they do to species other than themselves. I didn't even address what they do to each other, as it did not apply. I have NEVER said that there are two species of human, because there are not. We're talking about science fiction.

With regards to Lyta and Sheridan, she was treated badly for dramatic purposes to lay the groundwork for JMS's telepath war, and also because JMS likes to stir debate and unflinchingly present difficult issues for us to think about. Sheridan and Co. were guilty of using Lyta and always kept her at arms length.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> The cycle of suffering continues only because you make it to continue. I for one will resist the urges of bloodlust and revenge. Who will stand with me? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're all fired up about something, Angel, which is good, I suppose. But you're coming from so many angles, I'm not sure where you stand or how to stand with you.

As Galen once said, "When the time comes to choose your target, make sure you choose the right one," so stop shooting at me!

------------------
By Grabthar's Hammer!
By the Suns of Worvan!
You Shall BE AVENGED!
~Doctor Lazarus, Galaxy Quest episode 52, "Today is the Tomorrow of Our Yesterdays"

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Oh, and Galen, if you watch "The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father" you do see the statue of the two adults with the child between them in front of the PsiCorps Headquarters. It's sorta art deco.

------------------
By Grabthar's Hammer!
By the Suns of Worvan!
You Shall BE AVENGED!
~Doctor Lazarus, Galaxy Quest episode 52, "Today is the Tomorrow of Our Yesterdays"

 

[AngelSummers]

I'll apologise for one thing. Getting fired up over your comments. I admit I wrote it while being angry at your comments at how life is like evolution. You must realise that evolution is just like the Bible: not wholly proven yet.

I am a believer in peace. As a Buddhist, I study that the cause of suffering is caused by man and only man can change it. He can change it. Problem is he is blinded by ignorance. Ignorance is not bliss. It is the most harmful poison in one's mind. Ignorance brings fear, fear brings hate, hate leads to suffering. No I'm not quoting Yoda. This is a fact.

So when I hear that someone actually fully agrees with the concept of telepaths clashing with normal and that it is normal for the 2 sides to clash in Brutal war, I was angry that you seemed to perpetrate JMS predictions. (I know their storylines but lets continue that line of thought) Your thoughts on superior race having the right to shove aside a inferior race was also normal and justified. How many Empires have been lost to that type of thinking? Almost every European and American colony is free because the "Inferior" races stood up for their frights and in somecases, drove the white men from their soil. And violence was not the only method. Prime example: Mahatma Gandhi.

I now see that you, B5_obsessed did not truly mean the words as I interpreted them to be. Nevetheless, I refuse to believe that humanity will repeat that attrocity IF telepaths or for that matter ANY special breed of Humans surfaces. For one thing, humanity will be too divided on whther to exterminate or accept the special brethen.

Well, let's leave it at that. My post is about the evil of Alfred Bester anyway, that infidel of a Human. OK, cancel that, heartless bastard will do.

For those who are living in US, take care of yourselves. And remember that ignorance is not bliss. Its one of the most sweetest poison available and WILL lead to destruction if you take too much.

------------------
May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

 

[Quagmire]

B5-O, while there may be a statue in front of Psi Corp headquarters in the Core is Mother it is not the statue you are thinking of. That statue does not get made until after Sleeping in Light.

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"I used to be known as Eric, the waiter with hands for hands." The waiter with stubs for hands in The Kids in the Hall

 

[A_Ranger]

AngelSummners,
You say ignorance is not bliss and you believe humanity will never commit such atrocities again? Where are you? You have good intentions, but you are blind to the truth: Humans will always be humans. What makes you think that if a species evolved that could probe into our mind, we wouldn't have conflict? Even today, humans are still at war, after thousands of years of so called "evolution." Humans will always have a tendency for prejudice, no matter how well we are raised. Biologically, we are embedded with a wide array of emotions, to think that we could only harness the good is ignorant (no offense). However, I do agree with your notions agianst prejudice. It is wrong, but I still find my self doing it to soem extent. We all do. I realize humanity will never evolve to perfectness, but I believe we should do all we can and progress as much as we can. As good old JMS wrote, "Without the hope that things will get better, that our inheriters will know a world that is fuller and richer than our own, life is pointless, and evolution is vastly overrated"

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We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it

 

[AngelSummers]

When I say ignorance, I mean ignorance of facts. Ignorance that telepaths are humans with all the natural feelings and emotions we all have. Wars are based on ignorance of the unknown. Only through knowledge will ignorance be conquered and fear and hatred as well. I am fully aware of prejudice and our thirst for blood. I will continue to be aware of it when I accidentally think something racist or even do something remotely prejudicial.

I was unjustly angry at B5-O comments and I somehow interpreted it to mean he and G'Karseye believe its OK for normals to carry out prejudicial attacks on Telepaths. I was wrong, and they were merely stating the facts on why Bester became the megalomaniac he is. What I didn't agree was whther history will repeat itself in the real world should is happen.

I am not blind to the fact that we will carry out attrocities against any special breed of humans that suddenly pop out. What I don't agree is the extent it'll spread like JMS predictions. His predictions are too dark in my opinion since there are still plenty of good Christians, Moslems, Busddhists and normal free-thinkers who wouldn't lift a finger at that violence. And when I say "Good" I mean rational. Not attacking merely because they're different.

If something like this happens in the future, I for one will do everything in my power in the present to spread loving kindness all around me so people I know will not be conquered by fear and hatred in the future. And that includes everybody in this wonderful board created to discuss our favourite TV show.

Read my signature.

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May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

 

[AngelSummers]

And please don't give me shit that we're somehow genetically ingrained with certain traits. That is complete bullshit. We all make ourselves what we turn out to be. It's not TV, it's not parents, it's not even Religion. It is us. Ultimately, we choose our lives the way we want to be. Bester could have rejected the bad values, or even chose the path of righteousness after learning of the history of telepaths. He didn't. He chose that damned path. HE MADE HIMSELF WHAT HE TURNED OUT TO BE. It wasn't impossible for what I just said to turn out. Look at Byron and the rest of the rogue telepaths? They too chose to oberthrow the shackles of PsiCorps after receiving the same upbringing of Bester.

We are what we are. The Human race is not bloodthirsty on its own. It is merely the poison of ignorance which spreads like a plague through people.

------------------
May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

One final clarification. I never did condone violent acts against telepaths by normals.

My original intent was to state that "The Evil of Alfred Bester" was created by "The Evil, Violence, and Racism of Normals". Somehow it got lost in the translation. Even Garibaldi said it in one of the early episodes that PsiCorps was a monster that normals had created and someday, they would have to deal with it.

Even my ignorance is bliss quote was not an agreement, just a statement of fact. I never said that ignorance is right, I just said that the majority of Americans eat their steak and don't think about how it gets on the plate.

What ultimately drives the telepath conflict is fear. Fear created PsiCorps and forced teeps into it. As PsiCorps grew in power, fear of that power causes normals to become even MORE apprehensive. Teeps sense this growing unease and begin to fear for their safety, etc. etc. Unchecked, this increased paranoia would eventually lead to bloodshed.

Anyway, I seem to have an irony deficiency, because my post was an op-ed piece against most of the evils of modern-day (and future) society.

I'm so misunderstood.

------------------
"Draal gave Zathras list of things not to say. This was one.
No. Not good.
Not supposed to mention one, or THE one.
Hmmmm.

You never heard that."

 

[GKarsEye]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> You must realise that evolution is just like the Bible: not wholly proven yet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, can of worms, but holy crimeny, pal, go get yourself a library card.

Sounds like Summers' experience of humanity is limited to his (or her) suburb. Sorry, but your comments seem like you have a very limited knowledge of history and the basic way in which societies develop and interact.

And that whole hatred->fear Buddhist stuff? It is not "fact." It is philosophy. Questioning the validity of evolution but claiming a dogmatic philosophy of fact is beyond me.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B5_Obsessed:
One final clarification. I never did condone violent acts against telepaths by normals.

My original intent was to state that "The Evil of Alfred Bester" was created by "The Evil, Violence, and Racism of Normals".

Even Garibaldi said it in one of the early episodes that PsiCorps was a monster that normals had created and someday, they would have to deal with it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well normals created Metasensory Regulation Authority (MRA) and that turned into Psi Corps, but they were not in full control of what was going on within Psi Corps. Sure Psi Corps was always supposed to be headed up by a normal, but we know that wasn't always the case.

The teeps in Psi Corps think of themselves as Homo Superioris, separate from Homo Sapiens. They think of themselves as Homo Sapiens PLUS Psi ability, so that makes them superior.

The normals fear the teeps. Out of this comes atrocities against teeps, and the creation of MRA/Psi Corps. Because of the atrocities, the teeps fear the normals. This fear on both sides could lead to conflict between the groups.

Personally, if I were living in those times, I'd treat teeps and normals equally. Hell, I'd even marry a teep.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[GKarsEye]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Personally, if I were living in those times, I'd treat teeps and normals equally. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, let's think about this one.

Let's say you're conducting an important business deal with someone. You need to keep your company's secure information private, not reveal certain intentions of your party, etc. How can that be done if it's possible the person you're dealing with can read your mind without you knowing? How could you trust someone to be honest about it, especially since telepaths have to make a specific effort not to pick up thoughts. It's just too easy for them to take advantage of their abilities.

You can forget about gambling. If you think card counters are bad, just think what a teep could do.

Imagine a telepath who belongs to Al Queda, running around picking up thoughts from law enforcement, airport security, and military officials.

I can't even begin to picture what dating would be like when you throw telepaths in the mix. If women could actually read our minds, men would never get laid.

It is only reasonable to keep track and identify telepaths somehow, for the protection of normals. However, this very act marginalizes a population, adding further tension to an already volatile human nature which questions and attacks differences. The thing is, unlike racism, sexism, and homophobia, which are usually based on ignorance, fear and loathing between telepaths and normals does make more sense. Where there is no inherent difference between, say, black and white folks, there is between telepaths and normals.

With the telepaths, JMS has created a no-win situation. Despite what some of us like to think, folks, this happens a lot in real life. It's nice to say, "Oh golly, can't we all just like each other, wouldn't that be swell?" But real life gets in the way of that. As an artist, JMS is idealistic and liberal, but as an intelligent, practical person, he ain't no fool.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[Deviot]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B5_Obsessed:


1. I don't have a problem with telepaths. There are no telepaths.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Just because no-one has revealed to you that they are a telepath does not mean there arn't any!


------------------
Deviot
Lincbot@yahoo.com.au

 

[hypatia]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
With the telepaths, JMS has created a no-win situation. Despite what some of us like to think, folks, this happens a lot in real life. It's nice to say, "Oh golly, can't we all just like each other, wouldn't that be swell?" But real life gets in the way of that. As an artist, JMS is idealistic and liberal, but as an intelligent, practical person, he ain't no fool.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have me there, GkarsEye. It think even JMS himself once said something like 'I would not have used telepaths if it had not been crucial to the story'.

It's a tough bit to settle, isn't it? I would also guess (ignorantly) that this is also why the telepath war is one bit that JMS is still holding in reserve (possibly in hopes that a feature film could be made on this subject).

(Imagine a hopeful icon here).

------------------
"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

"I think I speak for Mr. Bloom and myself when I say: you are the only director in the World who can do justice to 'Springtime For Hitler' " - Zero Mostel, The Producers

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Angel Summers, I share your hope and optimism that humans will eventually overcome or out grow their prejudices. I once wrote what may be the longest post on this board defending Byron and his people, who many seem to hate. And I don't believe that Byron is a racist. But, that said, I believe that if teeps did exist, it would be hard for them and mundanes to coexist peacefully, even if most members of each didn't hate the other group, for the reasons that others have stated. PsiCorps was constructed to try and find a way for teeps and mundanes to get along, but it was grossly unfair to teeps, facist organization that it was. Perhaps more benign means could be found, but unfortunately, suspicion is a part of human nature, and is difficult to overcome. If teeps ever do develop in numbers, I think that we would do well to try and genetically engineer the teep gene into the next generation, so that eventually, everyone would be a teep, eliminating the basis of the prejudice. I believe that part of what JMS was doing with the teeps was getting us to look at our own prejudices.

As to Bester, I think Bakana's description of him as a sociopath is quite accurate. I would add that he was affected by being in the minds of too many people when they died. Also, as is obvious, he is an extreme egotist.

------------------
You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
Hmm, let's think about this one.

Let's say you're conducting an important business deal with someone. You need to keep your company's secure information private, not reveal certain intentions of your party, etc. How can that be done if it's possible the person you're dealing with can read your mind without you knowing? How could you trust someone to be honest about it, especially since telepaths have to make a specific effort not to pick up thoughts. It's just too easy for them to take advantage of their abilities.

You can forget about gambling. If you think card counters are bad, just think what a teep could do.

Imagine a telepath who belongs to Al Queda, running around picking up thoughts from law enforcement, airport security, and military officials.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


So, you'd employ teeps to counter the possible threats. I was assuming "teeps" as they have in ~2258-2262 in the B5 Universe, i.e. that situation, not teeps thrown into the mix of today's society without rules/controls/safeguards.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
I can't even begin to picture what dating would be like when you throw telepaths in the mix. If women could actually read our minds, men would never get laid.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, like I said above, there would have to be safeguards and rules of conduct. However, regarding what you said immediately above, it all depends on if you have anything to hide. With some of us, they might be pleasantly surprised.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
It is only reasonable to keep track and identify telepaths somehow, for the protection of normals. However, this very act marginalizes a population, adding further tension to an already volatile human nature which questions and attacks differences. The thing is, unlike racism, sexism, and homophobia, which are usually based on ignorance, fear and loathing between telepaths and normals does make more sense. Where there is no inherent difference between, say, black and white folks, there is between telepaths and normals.

With the telepaths, JMS has created a no-win situation. Despite what some of us like to think, folks, this happens a lot in real life. It's nice to say, "Oh golly, can't we all just like each other, wouldn't that be swell?" But real life gets in the way of that. As an artist, JMS is idealistic and liberal, but as an intelligent, practical person, he ain't no fool.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It also doesn't rule out the existance of normals like Franklin, who would give indivuduals the benefit of the doubt, and not judge a whole group (teeps, normals, men, women, etc.) based on what some of that group may have done.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> If women could actually read our minds, men would never get laid.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or maybe only the ones who actually CARE about the woman would get laid.

Or do you deny the possibility of some men actually being in Love?

------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

 

[AngelSummers]

Hi everybody!!! How are my American counterparts today? I hope you're all well doing whatever you're doing.

I'm in such a good mood today. Had a great day RPGing with my friends that I can hardly feel angry over anybody's comments today.

G'Karseye, I slightly resent your underestimation of my intelligence. Sorry that I have to be optimistic about our race. (note the sarcasm)

On another note, I may have pressed a few buttons when I mentioned Buddhist philosophies. I may have implied they are more real than Christianity. My apologies for insulting anyone. I had no right and I'm sorry. I just tend to think of Buddhism not as a religion but as a philosophy of life, nothing to do with divination. In that level, I associate Buddhism with Darwinism, Confucinism, Taoisms and other "..isms" which are a completely different category from Christianity and Islam. Main diffrence is that most of the afore-mentioned philosophies rarely involve God or Gods.

It may seem that I'm ignorant because I'm looking at a perspective that is completly psycological blind to you, as is your view is to me. Now look what has happend? We are enlightened by each others discusions. I'm now what you, B5_obessesed, Jade Jaguar, KoshN and bakana made me out to be. I am aware of your views as you are of mind.

Taking all you've just said, there is one last thing I want to add. What truly makes us humans? is it our skin, ourreligion, our culture, our physical orientation? In my opinion, it is our emotions and feelings that make us Human. even if telepaths emerge it doesn't mean they can't feel the same as us. And those feelings will be the same us normals. It is unlikely telepaths have evolved without hate, fear, anger, love, compassion, jealousy, repect etc etc etc. In this repect, it is likely they will be the same.

As for your fears that business dealings and relationships will be compromised, well, like Bakana said, the telepaths might be pleasantly suprised or will be able to sort out the everyday fantasies in one mind from the core emotions and thoughts. It might even strengthen relationships. And if the other knows yet accepts the telepath as a person not as a thing, all the better.

The result is a union far greater than the average marriage. I wouldn't mind as long as the other respects my wishes and still retain the concepts of honor, compassion and love that a normal wife will have anyway.

However, I'm beginning to accept a future war based on telepats crisis before any semblance of what I've been preaching [peace and coexistence] be formed in the future. There will be fights, lynch mobs, probably full scale wars. But in the end, from the ashes of hatred will come new life and it that life I'm counting on to learn our mistakes and create a better future.

JMS concept isn't wholly dark in that respect. Eventually telepaths and normals were integrated as one, granted in 1000 years time or 10000000 years time at the latest. JMS no win situation would probably extend many centuries but not forever. Eventually humanity will come to its senses and hopefully, our children will truly build a better future where we currently fail to do so now thanks to incompetents like Bush, Mahathir, and countless othe world leaders.

It's been a great debate I appreciate the views of G'Karseye, B5_obsessed, Jade Jaguar, A_Ranger, KoshN, bakana and Zoriah for yor intelligent replies which have opened me too many perspective.

I still reserve hope for our race. Let us make a stand now to dispel or at least control racism in our minds and make our future a better one by preaching peace, compassion and most of all love. Of all the chief emotions, only love can dispel hate and fear. So let us march on loving each other and everyone, no matter he be Jewish, Nazi, Al_Qeida, Crusade Christian, Burmese Warrior monks, Protestant, Catholic, Theravada or Mahayana Buddhist and especially Islam. For when all is said and done, we breathe the same air and share the same Earth.

May our love and compassion overide differences.

------------------
May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

 

[Mr. Bester]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AngelSummers:
JMS concept isn't wholly dark in that respect. Eventually telepaths and normals were integrated as one, granted in 1000 years time or 10000000 years time at the latest. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know that? I mean we were never shown any evidence of what happened to the telepaths in Deconstruction.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
JMS no win situation would probably extend many centuries but not forever. Eventually humanity will come to its senses and hopefully, our children will truly build a better future where we currently fail to do so now thanks to incompetents like Bush, Mahathir, and countless othe world leaders.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know that humanity "will come to its senses"? Humans could have wiped out the teeps or the teeps could have wiped out humanity. I'm hoping for the latter.

------------------

 

[GKarsEye]

In my old neighborhood in Brooklyn, one must be carefule when walking the streets at night. When one sees a group of young black men dressing and acting a certain way, one must be particularly wary. The fact is, the vast majority of street crimes in that neighborhood are committed by black men. So, is it racist to try to avoid being noticed by them, or to be more alert around them under those circumstances? No, it's being realistic. Even if it is racist, I'm not going to get hurt just to prove to myself how tolerant I am. Likewise, there are black folks in some rural areas in the Southern US that act the same way towards white people, and they are right to do so.

To accept the fact that a certain group of people in a specific situation act a certain way is not racist or prejudiced, it's called being smart. However, many in the situation I described above would take that idea and generalise it towards all black people. That is wrong. But it's human nature. We are not Vulcans. Most of us are not capable of being so objecive. A sad example is my father, whos gas station was held up by a black guy, car stolen by a black guy, apartment broken into by a black guy, etc. Like most people in his situation, he doesn't like black folks too much, and no arguing will change his mind (god knows I've tried. My family is a stubborn lot.) Is he right? Of course not. Is his behaviour typical? Unfortunately, yes.

So, what about telepaths? On B5, they said that a telepath must make an effort not to read people's thoughts. The point is, it is way too easy to just let down your guard for a moment and know what people are thinking. Can you honestly say that you wouldn't do it? I like to think my character is honest enough not to, but there are going to be telepaths who can't resist, and you can't blame them.

So, a few telepaths read some minds. Normals find out, and get justifiably angry. As with the example of urban black men I used above, people will naturally generalise, stereotype, etc.

Now the only solution is to do what KoshN said and the Earth government did: impose rules, borders, identification, etc. As right as this is, this creates a marginalised population, which is always volatile. It's like putting Indians on a reservation or Jews in a Ghetto, or even poor blacks in the projects: you're creating a population of angry outsiders.

The two possible courses of action of dealing with telepaths must, inevitably, lead to conflict:
1) Do nothing, allowing teeps to read mind and normals to grow afraid and therefore irrational with hatred.
2) Establish a marginalised minority, which always creates friction in a society.

There has been much talk about "hope" and what we think about humanity. These things are not as important as fact. Human beings, like all living creatures, behave in certain ways. It is neither "good" nor "bad." The longer we hold back judgement and opinion, the more truth we can learn.

People have thoughts that are violent, sexual, and "dark." Again, this is neither good nor bad, it just is. Our thoughts run around like mad in our brain, and we are allowed to have them, whatever they are. Our interaction with other people is based on our ability and choice on what to express and how to express them, and, equally important, what not to express. With a telepath, your basic means of social interaction is stripped from you. It is like playing football without a helmet against a tank.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."