The evil of Alfred Bester

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Its just that if you look at the once glorious Arab nations that nearly conquered half of Europe and that withstood the Hordes of Genghis Khan, you would never imagine they did that 1000 years before. As of now, they're so backward and the only thing that keeps them going is the huge deposits of oil throughout Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

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Pre-Muslim Arabs did most of this. They had heard of Mohammad but had not yet been fully converted.

Things like Arabic numbers come from Persia. The Iranians are happy to tell you that they may be Muslims but they are not Arabs.

Europe learnt a lot from China, with the Arabs acting as messengers.

Andrew Swallow


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Andrew Swallow

 

[GKarsEye]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Pre-Muslim Arabs did most of this. They had heard of Mohammad but had not yet been fully converted.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, that's not right. Islam was founded in the 7th century under the "prophet" Mohammed. He gathered the nomadic people of Saudi Arabia as followers and within his lifetime conquered a healthy portion of that area.

Fact: the connection of Islams to violence was there since its inception and was a jey factor to its establishment as the most population religion in the world.

However, as Islam spread through conquest, many nations under Islamic rule found that they could live in relative peace and freedom. This is especially true for Jews in Spain, for example, who found the Muslim rulers to be much more tolerant than their Christian predecessors. The Spanish expulsion of Muslim rule in the 14th century was one of the most tragic events in Jewish history, as it lead to the Spanish Inquisition.

Islamic scholars in the middle ages were often open to dialogue and cultural exchange with the learned people of other religions. Since they took it for granted that Islam was the "true faith," they didn't spend much energy trying to prove it or convert people once they had conquered a territory (contrast this to many embarassing incidents in the Catholic church, such as holding mock "debates" with rabbis to "prove" the validity of Christianity).

Even in Palestine, local residents were better off under the rule of Muslims than the corruption and neglect brought by the Crusaders.

What relevance does all this have to today's situation? Absolutely none. The breed of Islam followed by Al Queda and the Taliban is a new school of extremism (can't remember the name). It's creation is a result of the political turmoil the mideast experienced in the last 30 years.

Islam, like any other religion, has been a force of repression, control, and horror throughout history. It has also been responsible for education, cultural exchange, and keeping the spirit of progress alive.

Islam is idea, and like all ideas, ultimately means nothing without action.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[AngelSummers]

That's why Osama bin Laden and his band of merry terrorist are nothing but bastards and ignorant idiots who represent nothing about Islam. They're no more Muslims than the Crusades were Christians. The true doctirnes of either preach tolerance and compassion.

Only an idiot believes otherwise. Unfortunately, the world seems to have a plentiful supply of those idiots.

What the heck does all this have to do with Bester? EVERYONE, AS FOUNDER OF THIS THREAD I RESPECTFULLY DEMAND WE RETURN TO OUR ORIGINAL LINE OF DISCUSSION. THAT ALFRED BESTER IS A IGNORANT FOOL!!

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May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Alfred Bester spelled sideways is Osama bin Laden.

Are we back now? They both see the world through the distorted window of their own extreme prejudices, both doing what they think best for their own people, yet at the same time oppressing and destroying them. And both are blind to the fact that they are serving their own self-interests more than a higher cause.

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You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.

 

[GKarsEye]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Only an idiot believes otherwise. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, how can one argue with that brilliant point of logic?

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[AngelSummers]

The fact that logical people like you and me know very well that those religions are those of peace. Argue all you want but when all is said and done, Jesus still preached compassion, Mohammad teached tolerance and Buddha taught peace. Anybody says otherwise? They're not what they seem.

Even the old Muslim empires were far more tolerant than the Christian kingdoms who ruled Europe. Didja know King Edward the Longshanks (same one in Braveheart) commited the first ethnic cleansing of Jews? He had them wear special dresses first and than had them deported. Halfway, they were betrayed and left on a rock with a rising tide. And all died a watery death.

BACK TO ALFRED BESTER!!!!! DON'T YOU GUYS EVER QUIT AT GOING OFF TOPIC!!!

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May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

 

[AngelSummers]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jade Jaguar:
Alfred Bester spelled sideways is Osama bin Laden.

Are we back now? They both see the world through the distorted window of their own extreme prejudices, both doing what they think best for their own people, yet at the same time oppressing and destroying them. And both are blind to the fact that they are serving their own self-interests more than a higher cause.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't put it better myself Jade Jaguar. Your insight is indeed valuable to our accumulation of wisdom.

Yes, Bester was a misguided psycho-maniac who used the pretext of protecting telepaths to further his own goals of conquest. The worst and most pityful thing about it is that he was totally unaware about it till his death.

Pity, pity, pity.

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May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

 

[HockeyPlayer47]

I just think he's an ass.

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Ah, good old Psi-Corps. Ya know you guys never cease to amaze me. Just what do you do in your spare time anyway? Juggle babies over a fire pit? Woops... there goes another calculated risk!!!
-Ivonova

God I'm off! I couldn't be more off the f~(%!n' mark! -Bruce Boxleitner

 

[GKarsEye]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The fact that logical people like you and me know very well that those religions are those of peace. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nuh-uh. If you look at the beginnings and religious texts, some religions are not peaceful. Specifically, Judaism and Islam. The Torah (Jewish holy book = Old Testament) tells us that the Hebrews invaded Palestine and slaughtered its inhabitants (including all women, children, and cattle). Why? Because god told them to.

Peaceful?

Islam at its very inception was spread under the sword. Muhammed himself was responsible for leading his followers across Saudi Arabia to forcibly convert its people.

Peaceful?

I know we're all supposed to go around saying that religions are swell and all bad things are because of individuals, not beliefs. Sorry folks, it don't work that way. How do I know that Islam is not a religion of peace? I get that from its chief prophet and founder.

Ironically, Christianity did begin peacefully. Once it achieved dominance, of course, that changed.

That whole argument about violent people not being "real Muslims" or "true Christians" is balderdash. Religion is all interpretation. Some interpret it for violence, some for peace. I really don't care, as long as they leave me and mine the hell alone.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Strange. I agree with GKarsEye.

Oh yes. Some religions (and smaller divisions inside them) are indeed violent. There is no denying of that. Some have started violently and developed peaceful forms. And the other way around.

How any religion in general started is irrelevant. What particular groups do today is relevant. We can not change the past, only learn from it. But if something goes wrong today, we can correct it.

Organized religion has the capability to do significant good... and great harm. It can be used to heal, help or educate... as well as oppress, divide and brainwash. How it gets used depends on people.

It is the task of every society to oversee how organised religions are practised -- to stop them from being misused while allowing those who wish to benefit from their good sides. How to do this... is a question yet unsolved.

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"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn