A_M_Swallow
Regular
There is one. In the Crusade episode "Racing the Night" the Shadows used their virus. The aliens survived by freezing their people in underground bunkers.
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The Minbari suck
- Thread starter GKarsEye
- Start date
Which will give them a HUGE advantage if they ever have another war with humanity, after Kevin the designer has removed all pockets from the Earthforce uniforms!
Just reading through this thread, nothing sensible to add to this discussion at the moment, but that really threw me off my chair *rofl*
As I understood it, they weren't just looking for anyone accepting, they looked for the right individual and civilization to start things with. (I might be wrong but I had the feeling, G'kar would not have gone on with this, like Londo did. I really need to watch that season again.)
I mean both species did not cared for the individual, also they might have cared at the beginning for the younger races, later they only cared to prove their point of view.
They just have different set of values and they totally got caught in the web of their own "morals".
It would not have made much sense if they did, eliminating telepath on Narn, or punishing civilizations that seemed to powerful to be left in the "game", was one thing, but their goal was to strengthen civilization by having them quarrel with each others. If they being powerful as they were ran around blasting away entire civilizations, it wouldn't have the same effect.
Which comes very close to describing certain aspects of the Minbari society. Strict rules and guidelines that place the group above the individual etc ...
Wasn't it like the shadows coming out of hiding, starting these conflicts , while the Vorlons gathered the races they had "build up" in the last millenia and let them march directly against the shadows? I bet that made up for the previous destructions caused by the Shadows.
Death of personality, the most hypocritical punishment imaginable. But actually the Shadows did that, too. If
they can use a certain individual, they do it - like they used Anna.
As much as I agree, with you on how horrible and unacceptable their methods were, the whole point is that they could not have solved their conflict by going at each other directly. It wasn't about who was the winner at the end of the war, it was about who's ideologie was better.
One could say, their crime began, when they abandoned their post by letting their conflict of ideas become more important than taking care of the other races. But I think this was the plan from the beginning. I think the worst "fucked up" fellow is Lorien (Is that the name of the FIRST ONE, I don't remember clearly how it was written or sounded like)
He sat there all this millenias, just biding his time waiting for the right moment. Said moment was when in his point of view the younger races were ready. He kind of told Sheridian he did not liked what they did, but he wasn't stopping them. No, he knew exactly how each of them were ticking and had planned this whole conflict to begin with. Lorien knew which buttons he had to push, when he finally gathered everyone and the younger races showed them that they were not appreciated anymore, they really appeared like frightened and lost little children. Because that is what they are, compared to Lorien.
I would not be surprised if he or others that were gone had taught them their ways in the first place. I mean their horizon was so limited, despite their technological level, it was very disturbing in the whole picture.
At least the younger races (including the Minbari) have made decisions for themselves. Of course there are still old rules and patterns of behaviours, but this generation of races is far more diverse in their options than the previous one's which seemed quite single minded in their views of the world.
Like somoeone pointed out, the Shadows have no real leaders, but neither do the Vorlons, unless you see Lorien as the boss behind it all. He was the only one that everyone paid attention, too.
Maybe he realised that such strong indoctrination is not the best way and created this situation to educate the younger races better. Then again, despite our sense of individualism (that is strong in all races in different degrees) every race follows still one principale, they have a lead person or group and they follow them "blindly". Of course only until the next one comes along ... who knows if the old races (before the younger ones came) had not been up far better than we, after all they are a lot mor alien than any of the other species we encounter in Babylon 5.
deaded
Regular
It's a fascinating question. If I could pick the next subject for a B5 book it would be about either the Shadows or the Vorlons and discuss their origins, homeworld and socital structure.
But hey, even the Borg had a leader. The drones lost their individuality but there was certainly a queen controlling it all.
But hey, even the Borg had a leader. The drones lost their individuality but there was certainly a queen controlling it all.
Sindatur
Regular
Deaded, I think Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum is the most you'll ever see on origins, homeworld, and societal structure of the Shadows. Vorlons, you aren't likely to see much more on either.
It's important to the awe involved not to de-mystify the Shadows and the Vorlons. That's like when you watch a show for years and years, and the one couple finally gets together and gets married. The show no longer works after that in most cases.
It's important to the awe involved not to de-mystify the Shadows and the Vorlons. That's like when you watch a show for years and years, and the one couple finally gets together and gets married. The show no longer works after that in most cases.
KoshFan
Regular
Well, I may have a Vorlon as my avatar, but you'll note that I'm "KoshFan" and not "VorlonFan." A great deal of why I love Kosh is that he was willing to go against the wishes of his own species to help the younger races. And note that the Vorlons get downright homicidal when Kosh isn't around. I think he was reining them in, and when he was out of commission or dead, they lost his moderating influence and went wild.
2aMageing
Regular
I would be hopeful that JMS could create new mysteries within the old, once he had revealed the inner workings of the older races. Often times the new info generates new questions. He very likely will not. But I think it could work to an advantage, if done properly.
Trade in old "legends" for new micro"legends".
Trade in old "legends" for new micro"legends".
Jade Jaguar
Regular
The Minbari suck? You need a whole thread and a lot of philosophizing to demonstrate that? It's really very simple:
Anyone who doesn't drink beer sucks.
The Minbari don't drink beer.
Therefore, The Minbari SUCK!
What more do you need?
It's really very simple:Anyone who doesn't drink beer sucks.
The Minbari don't drink beer.
Therefore, The Minbari SUCK!
What more do you need?
2aMageing
Regular
The Minbari suck? You need a whole thread and a lot of philosophizing to demonstrate that?
Anyone who doesn't drink beer sucks.
The Minbari don't drink beer.
Therefore, The Minbari SUCK!
What more do you need?
Ah, flawless..........logic?
But, Minbari NEVER whine.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
Why are you using my name? I did not start this thread and the only posting I made was about the Shadows.
