<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Yeah I know, but... the moderated groups aren't looked after nearly as well as messageboards IMO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That depends entierly on the moderators. The B5 group, for example, is much stricter than this board. It has a probation peroid for new posters, requiering their posts to be manualy approved until the moderators are satisfied they can behave themselves. Each new thread must also be approved by a moderator. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Simply because there's too many posts to kepe up with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The B5 group has 8 moderators to share the responsibility should things get too hectic.
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To the actors ? some thoughts about online forums
- Thread starter drakh
- Start date
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**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it or not, I read most of the posts, then rushed through the last few because I was compelled to add...
One of the best things about interacting with us fans, is the chance to defend yourself when the wild accusations fly.
Until I became a counsellor six years ago, I was an actor for five years, and dealt with what we nicknamed the 'lunatic fringe' - those fans who feel they have a possessive right to own you, because to them you are nothing more than public property.
No doubt, all the Legends actors will have dealt with that to some degree, particularly in America - no, I'm not being anti-America, you guys just have about 100 times the population of Australia! More loonies!
It would be a dreadful loss for all of us, if you, the actors, withdrew your communication with us because of a few desperate 'trolls' (I think that is the term). But if you were to, as a fan now, I am sure we would understand.
Best of luck with it all, the majority is with you, and happy to have you as part of the family.
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Faith Manages
One of the best things about interacting with us fans, is the chance to defend yourself when the wild accusations fly.
Until I became a counsellor six years ago, I was an actor for five years, and dealt with what we nicknamed the 'lunatic fringe' - those fans who feel they have a possessive right to own you, because to them you are nothing more than public property.
No doubt, all the Legends actors will have dealt with that to some degree, particularly in America - no, I'm not being anti-America, you guys just have about 100 times the population of Australia! More loonies!
It would be a dreadful loss for all of us, if you, the actors, withdrew your communication with us because of a few desperate 'trolls' (I think that is the term). But if you were to, as a fan now, I am sure we would understand.
Best of luck with it all, the majority is with you, and happy to have you as part of the family.
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Faith Manages
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
I forgot to mention...
PUHLEEAAASSSSSEEEEE STAY! *laughs*
I've only just discovered you guys come here!!
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Faith Manages
PUHLEEAAASSSSSEEEEE STAY! *laughs*
I've only just discovered you guys come here!!
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Faith Manages
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Lord:
The difference is newsgroups are largely unmoderated and no one can really keep up with everything to keep things cool.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, they come in both varieties. Most of them are unmoderated, but somtimes a modertaed one is called for. A moderated one was for example created for B5, after the first one was reduced to a non-stop flame fest to the point where jms decided to leave. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>While this is a messageboard, where people can get banned, flames edited etc. which makes things a lot more friendly. Also I believe certain board versions have an ignore feature, where you can put a member who displeases you on ignore, so their posts don't show up. Don't think this one has that feature though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Killfiles (ignoring a poster) are standard on most newsgroup readers, and generally crucial to remainig sane
The difference is newsgroups are largely unmoderated and no one can really keep up with everything to keep things cool.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, they come in both varieties. Most of them are unmoderated, but somtimes a modertaed one is called for. A moderated one was for example created for B5, after the first one was reduced to a non-stop flame fest to the point where jms decided to leave. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>While this is a messageboard, where people can get banned, flames edited etc. which makes things a lot more friendly. Also I believe certain board versions have an ignore feature, where you can put a member who displeases you on ignore, so their posts don't show up. Don't think this one has that feature though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Killfiles (ignoring a poster) are standard on most newsgroup readers, and generally crucial to remainig sane
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
When it comes to posters misbehaving on public forums, believe me, I've seen it all.
I was a member of a certain Star Wars fansite which was temporarily shut down by its host after the President of LucasArts himself lodged a complaint with said host.
The reason? Someone suggested that they would put Mr. President's head on a spike because LucasArts had pulled the rug on a computer game.
Now that's ridiculous!
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I was a member of a certain Star Wars fansite which was temporarily shut down by its host after the President of LucasArts himself lodged a complaint with said host.
The reason? Someone suggested that they would put Mr. President's head on a spike because LucasArts had pulled the rug on a computer game.
Now that's ridiculous!
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On the issue of artists as public property –
It happens far too much! Too many times fans believe that just because what an artist does is presented in a public forum – in television, in the bookstore, etc., - that that person as a fan has a right to own the output. And that’s just not true.
This mentality has led to the Napster debacle, the hundreds of B5 fans thinking they can just bandy about JMS’ Crusade scripts, the numerous reprinted full-text novels that are NOT on permission-bound sites like Project Gutenberg, and the trolls that infest SF sites complaining about the fact that they didn’t like what a certain actor did.
I think this stuff honestly needs to be addressed in school. It’s too much a part of our society to ignore, and it’s a very destructive mentality.
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Channe, Freelance Writer Extraordinaire and The Next JMS
--
B5 Synchroninity of the Day: I just found out that the new dorm I'm living in next year has been named Breen Hall.
It happens far too much! Too many times fans believe that just because what an artist does is presented in a public forum – in television, in the bookstore, etc., - that that person as a fan has a right to own the output. And that’s just not true.
This mentality has led to the Napster debacle, the hundreds of B5 fans thinking they can just bandy about JMS’ Crusade scripts, the numerous reprinted full-text novels that are NOT on permission-bound sites like Project Gutenberg, and the trolls that infest SF sites complaining about the fact that they didn’t like what a certain actor did.
I think this stuff honestly needs to be addressed in school. It’s too much a part of our society to ignore, and it’s a very destructive mentality.
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Channe, Freelance Writer Extraordinaire and The Next JMS
--
B5 Synchroninity of the Day: I just found out that the new dorm I'm living in next year has been named Breen Hall.
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
It's a pleasure and an honor of sorts when actors who spend 10~16 hours/day working take the time to come on-line and politely answer questions posted by fans. This is a privilege, not a right, and should anyone abuse it, they will face a few whacks from my denn'sha before I really lose my temper.
I, too, moderate boards that have nothing to do with B5. And I've gotten everything from trolls to pedos - an interesting combination that can make one lose his/her appetite for weeks on forward.
PS, kidding about whacking with denn'sha - if possible, I usually ignore the lunatics in the white coat and rubber pants.
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"Personal journal, Captain Matthew Gideon, continue. It's now three days since our visitors arrived on behalf of Earthgov's Political Affairs Office. There is apparently some concern with how our work here is being perceived back home. They've been assigned to "help" us. Before their tour is finished, I may have to kill them. Assuming, Lt. Matheson doesn't beat me to it."
I, too, moderate boards that have nothing to do with B5. And I've gotten everything from trolls to pedos - an interesting combination that can make one lose his/her appetite for weeks on forward.
PS, kidding about whacking with denn'sha - if possible, I usually ignore the lunatics in the white coat and rubber pants.
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"Personal journal, Captain Matthew Gideon, continue. It's now three days since our visitors arrived on behalf of Earthgov's Political Affairs Office. There is apparently some concern with how our work here is being perceived back home. They've been assigned to "help" us. Before their tour is finished, I may have to kill them. Assuming, Lt. Matheson doesn't beat me to it."
GKarsEye
Regular
"If they didn't want people looking through their garbage and saying they're gay, they shouldn't have tried to express themselves creatively"
-Homer Simpson
One of the things that makes me despair for our country is the sick obsession people have with celebrities. People look at me like I'm nuts if I say I met someone famous and didn't get all excited.
No damnit, I don't want to stand around after the concert and try to get an autograph, I'm cold, I want to go home!
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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
-Homer Simpson
One of the things that makes me despair for our country is the sick obsession people have with celebrities. People look at me like I'm nuts if I say I met someone famous and didn't get all excited.
No damnit, I don't want to stand around after the concert and try to get an autograph, I'm cold, I want to go home!
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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
I disagre with the idea that the Schools should be responsible for teaching Good Manners.
It's the parents job and they are the ones who should be catching the flack for failing.
Teachers are in enough trouble for failing to teach readin, ritin and rithmetic.
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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
It's the parents job and they are the ones who should be catching the flack for failing.
Teachers are in enough trouble for failing to teach readin, ritin and rithmetic.
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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
crazybillyo
Regular
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> It's the parents job and they are the ones who should be catching the flack for failing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Excellent statement Bakana. The parents are the ultimate giver of education, not the state. It must be instilled upon our youth that respect and encouragement are preferable than being rude and overly obsessive in derogatory comments.
The parents are the right people, in the right place, at the right time, not the teachers. Teachers just provide a bit of assistance in certain matters.
If more parents payed attention to the child's development, maybe we wouldn't have need for moderators, ops, or threads like this one. (not that it's a bad thread
)
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Sheridan: Are you trying to cheer me up?
Ivanova: No sir, wouldn't dream of it.
Sheridan: Good, I hate being cheered up. It's depressing.
Ivanova: So in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths.
Sheridan: Thank you, I feel so much better now.
[This message has been edited by crazybillyo (edited August 06, 2001).]
Excellent statement Bakana. The parents are the ultimate giver of education, not the state. It must be instilled upon our youth that respect and encouragement are preferable than being rude and overly obsessive in derogatory comments.
The parents are the right people, in the right place, at the right time, not the teachers. Teachers just provide a bit of assistance in certain matters.
If more parents payed attention to the child's development, maybe we wouldn't have need for moderators, ops, or threads like this one. (not that it's a bad thread
------------------
Sheridan: Are you trying to cheer me up?
Ivanova: No sir, wouldn't dream of it.
Sheridan: Good, I hate being cheered up. It's depressing.
Ivanova: So in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths.
Sheridan: Thank you, I feel so much better now.
[This message has been edited by crazybillyo (edited August 06, 2001).]
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
Channe, I think you have touched on something very important.
Maybe you should consider a side trip into politics part time, while pursuing your career as a writer?
It does seem somewhat strange that with the effects of the 'lunatic fringe' impacting every area of entertainment, that this is not somehow covered in our school systems. Especially considering the effects of obsession - whether you be a reporter, or a fan. For example the still questioned death of Princess Diana and the stalking of everyone from Russell Crowe to daytime soap stars. But I guess this aspect of entertainment/education is another arguement all together.
Thank you for your considered thoughts! It might make some people think. Someone wrote earlier that you can't tell a 'Troll' until he/she pounces - maybe like Mr Morden wondering the Station they are already amongst us (cue Twilight Zone music)... if so, maybe they'll take notice of the various reality checks people have taken the time to post.
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We are Grey... We stand between the Candle, and the Star...
Between Darkness, and the Light...
Maybe you should consider a side trip into politics part time, while pursuing your career as a writer?
It does seem somewhat strange that with the effects of the 'lunatic fringe' impacting every area of entertainment, that this is not somehow covered in our school systems. Especially considering the effects of obsession - whether you be a reporter, or a fan. For example the still questioned death of Princess Diana and the stalking of everyone from Russell Crowe to daytime soap stars. But I guess this aspect of entertainment/education is another arguement all together.
Thank you for your considered thoughts! It might make some people think. Someone wrote earlier that you can't tell a 'Troll' until he/she pounces - maybe like Mr Morden wondering the Station they are already amongst us (cue Twilight Zone music)... if so, maybe they'll take notice of the various reality checks people have taken the time to post.
------------------
We are Grey... We stand between the Candle, and the Star...
Between Darkness, and the Light...
RW7427
Super Moderator
Well my thought on the subject is that to be an actor, you need to be able to accept whatever form of fan reaction whether good or bad. It's part of the job I'm sure. Not everyone is going to like you or what you do, the roles youplay, the clothes you were, etc. and an actor just can't run and hide from all of that. If he or she did, they would not have a job. People are going to say what they are going to say, there's not much Dylan, Kitaro, and the others from B5LOTR's cast can do about it. If they can't handle negative criticism, them they are in the wrong field. But I am glad to see that they come here and interact with us. Most people here are good, friendly people, so I don't see a lot of that negativity directed at them here.
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Sheridan to Bester:
And I could nail your head to the table, set fire to it, and feed your charred remains to the Pak'ma'ra.
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Sheridan to Bester:
And I could nail your head to the table, set fire to it, and feed your charred remains to the Pak'ma'ra.
Bakana-
This is not morality. This is not the parents' purview. This is copyright LAW, American law, that should be taught along with the Constitution in the schools, especially since this is much more an issue now than it has been in the past.
Yes, infringing a copyright is a moral issue, but it is protected by law. It is a crime for someone to infringe on someone else's work, a punishable crime.
Copyright law is not 'oh, well, Davey, it's bad for you to rip off this artist.' Copyright law is 'oh, well, Davey, it's a CRIME for you to rip off this artist.' Copyright law is not 'Davey, please don't e-mail that other guy JMS' unpublished scripts,' it's 'Davey, you CAN'T e-mail that other guy JMS' unpublished scripts BECAUSE IT IS A CRIME.'
I feel very, very strongly about this issue, as I someday am going to have to deal with it.
*gets off her soapbox*
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Channe, Freelance Writer Extraordinaire and The Next JMS
--
B5 Synchroninity of the Day: I just found out that the new dorm I'm living in next year has been named Breen Hall.
This is not morality. This is not the parents' purview. This is copyright LAW, American law, that should be taught along with the Constitution in the schools, especially since this is much more an issue now than it has been in the past.
Yes, infringing a copyright is a moral issue, but it is protected by law. It is a crime for someone to infringe on someone else's work, a punishable crime.
Copyright law is not 'oh, well, Davey, it's bad for you to rip off this artist.' Copyright law is 'oh, well, Davey, it's a CRIME for you to rip off this artist.' Copyright law is not 'Davey, please don't e-mail that other guy JMS' unpublished scripts,' it's 'Davey, you CAN'T e-mail that other guy JMS' unpublished scripts BECAUSE IT IS A CRIME.'
I feel very, very strongly about this issue, as I someday am going to have to deal with it.
*gets off her soapbox*
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Channe, Freelance Writer Extraordinaire and The Next JMS
--
B5 Synchroninity of the Day: I just found out that the new dorm I'm living in next year has been named Breen Hall.
Kribu
Administrator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RW7427:
If they can't handle negative criticism, them they are in the wrong field. But I am glad to see that they come here and interact with us. Most people here are good, friendly people, so I don't see a lot of that negativity directed at them here.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am sure - well, at least I hope so
- that the cast of Rangers are professionals who can handle negative criticism.
But there is in my opinion a huge difference between criticism, even if it's negative, and flaming or just personal insults based on nothing, just someone's desire to hurt the people who have willingly put themselves in the public eye. Criticism - if done politely and if it has a solid point - can be a good thing, something to learn from. Flaming and insulting someone is not.
I certainly hope that this board will stay a friendly and polite place after the airing of the movie as well. It's a pleasure and a rare treat for us fans to have the actors come here and interact with us, and I sure hope it stays that way.
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"It's animal magnetism. What can I say?"
- G'Kar, A Tragedy of Telepaths
If they can't handle negative criticism, them they are in the wrong field. But I am glad to see that they come here and interact with us. Most people here are good, friendly people, so I don't see a lot of that negativity directed at them here.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am sure - well, at least I hope so
But there is in my opinion a huge difference between criticism, even if it's negative, and flaming or just personal insults based on nothing, just someone's desire to hurt the people who have willingly put themselves in the public eye. Criticism - if done politely and if it has a solid point - can be a good thing, something to learn from. Flaming and insulting someone is not.
I certainly hope that this board will stay a friendly and polite place after the airing of the movie as well. It's a pleasure and a rare treat for us fans to have the actors come here and interact with us, and I sure hope it stays that way.
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"It's animal magnetism. What can I say?"
- G'Kar, A Tragedy of Telepaths
Chris Springob
Regular
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
b) I've not been in B5 fandom when it's active, so I don't know what that's like. I know Star Trek fandom is just a minefield of bitterness and infighting. By what I've seen of B5 fandom so far, it's incredibly positive and polite. I hope it remains that way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, but that could change once we have a brand new series and people start to get into those "My show is better than your show" arguments that Star Trek fandom is famous for.
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b) I've not been in B5 fandom when it's active, so I don't know what that's like. I know Star Trek fandom is just a minefield of bitterness and infighting. By what I've seen of B5 fandom so far, it's incredibly positive and polite. I hope it remains that way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, but that could change once we have a brand new series and people start to get into those "My show is better than your show" arguments that Star Trek fandom is famous for.
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D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
I find this board to be one of the most good-natured ones I have encountered. I surely hope it to stay so - and will do my part to help it stay so.
I greatly appreciate that the actors of "The Legend of the Rangers" have chosen to visit this site and participate in the discussions. I hope no reasons arise for you to doubt whether this was the right choice...
-----------
(An off-topic remark) to Channe about copyright:
I completely agree with you on nearly all of the issues you touched ...but having worked as a translator and currently working as a programmer (thus having to deal with copyright law for a large portion of my time) I feel obliged to remind you of something. It may apply less in the field of acting and creative fiction... but it has touched me in my field of work.
Don't get overly excited about copyright laws. They are far from perfect in all countries - they have shortcomings and don't always work as intended.
I completely agree that the basic concepts of authors' rights should be understood much more widely and taught more actively.
But copyright, especially in the software business, is a three-edged sword. If I don't respect my client by producing quality software (no hasty releases followed by dozens of patches) with a possibility to test its functionality and suitability (limited evaluation versions) and a fair but profitable price (not the one that you can charge after achieving a monopoly)...
... then how can I expect my potential client to respect me and buy the program? Several copyright issues are rooted equally deeply in our corporate culture of putting profit first. Only after both sides are fixed can the issue be considered resolved.
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Canned flarn is a sacrilege.
[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited August 07, 2001).]
I greatly appreciate that the actors of "The Legend of the Rangers" have chosen to visit this site and participate in the discussions. I hope no reasons arise for you to doubt whether this was the right choice...
-----------
(An off-topic remark) to Channe about copyright:
I completely agree with you on nearly all of the issues you touched ...but having worked as a translator and currently working as a programmer (thus having to deal with copyright law for a large portion of my time) I feel obliged to remind you of something. It may apply less in the field of acting and creative fiction... but it has touched me in my field of work.
Don't get overly excited about copyright laws. They are far from perfect in all countries - they have shortcomings and don't always work as intended.
I completely agree that the basic concepts of authors' rights should be understood much more widely and taught more actively.
But copyright, especially in the software business, is a three-edged sword. If I don't respect my client by producing quality software (no hasty releases followed by dozens of patches) with a possibility to test its functionality and suitability (limited evaluation versions) and a fair but profitable price (not the one that you can charge after achieving a monopoly)...
... then how can I expect my potential client to respect me and buy the program? Several copyright issues are rooted equally deeply in our corporate culture of putting profit first. Only after both sides are fixed can the issue be considered resolved.
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Canned flarn is a sacrilege.
[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited August 07, 2001).]
Channe, my post didn't address the issue of Copyright.
It was aimed at the implied assumption that the schools were also responsible for teaching kids not to engage in Flame Wars, gratuitous insults and, in general, annoying the actors because of the Roles they play in a movie or TV series.
The main thrust of this thread has been the relationship of Fans to the Actors.
The Copyright issue is discussed elsewhere.
I think we all agreed that Theft of someone else's work is Theft, no matter how someone tries to sugar coat it.
As far as Copyright violations in Software Development, the best known thief in existence is Micro$oft. Theft of others work is Company Policy. It always has been.
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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
It was aimed at the implied assumption that the schools were also responsible for teaching kids not to engage in Flame Wars, gratuitous insults and, in general, annoying the actors because of the Roles they play in a movie or TV series.
The main thrust of this thread has been the relationship of Fans to the Actors.
The Copyright issue is discussed elsewhere.
I think we all agreed that Theft of someone else's work is Theft, no matter how someone tries to sugar coat it.
As far as Copyright violations in Software Development, the best known thief in existence is Micro$oft. Theft of others work is Company Policy. It always has been.
------------------
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
GKarsEye
Regular
To be honest, some of the silly comparisons in here already bother me a bit. Sinclair vs Sheridan. Sherdian vs Lochley. Lochley vs Ivanova. Delenn w/o hair vs Delenn w/ hair. Blah, blah, blah. It's all nonsense.
So I just skip over that stuff. If it happens here, just don't read those threads.
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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
So I just skip over that stuff. If it happens here, just don't read those threads.
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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
