Jade Jaguar
Regular
I don't think the Borg would stand a chance. I think the Shadows' weapons are more powerful. And, the Borg are really kinda dumb, and lacking in creativity, while the Shadows are extremely devious.
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Truth_Seeker
Regular
I agree that the Shadows should be brilliant considering how long they have been evolving.The artificial intelligence of the Borg should be nothing more than a super advanced computer program without the ability to think in a creative way.
Lousy_Dodgers
Regular
Reading this post was a great fun.Maybe because it's impossible for those ships to meet.I have another idea:
The starship "Enterprise" crosses the border of Vorlon space.
A patroling Vorlon ship jumps out of hyperspace.
Enterprise:"This is Captain Jean-Luc Picard from the USS "Enterprise".Who are you?
Vorlons:"Who are YOU"
Enterprise:"We come from a planet called Earth"
Vorlons"Irrelevant"
Enterprise:"We have a mission to explore this area of space"
Vorlons:"Incorrect.Leave NOW"
Enterprise:"We don't understand you"
Vorlons:"Then listen to the music, not the song"
Enterprise:"Aren't you going to show us some respect"
Vorlons:"Respect!From whom?"
Enterprise:"We can't allow you to stop our mission.Full impusle"
Vorlons:"Disobidient"
With a single beam from the Vorlon ship "Enterprise" is destroyed!
Fantastic
Of course, we could add Troi into the mix...
Vorlons: Who are you?
Picard: I am Captain Jean Luc Picard of the USS Enterprise.
Vorlons: Insufficient. Who are you?
Picard: I am a representative of the United Federation of Planets. We are peaceful explorers.
Vorlons: Irrelevent. Who are you?
Picard: I do not understand. What do you want?
Vorlons: Never ask that question again!!!!
Troi: Captain, I am sensing great anger.
Everyone on the bridge: No shit, Counselor Obvious!
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Reading this post was a great fun
The starship "Enterprise" crosses the border of Vorlon space.
A patroling Vorlon ship jumps out of hyperspace.
Enterprise:"This is Captain Jean-Luc Picard from the USS "Enterprise".Who are you?
Vorlons:"Who are YOU"
Enterprise:"We come from a planet called Earth"
Vorlons"Irrelevant"
Enterprise:"We have a mission to explore this area of space"
Vorlons:"Incorrect.Leave NOW"
Enterprise:"We don't understand you"
Vorlons:"Then listen to the music, not the song"
Enterprise:"Aren't you going to show us some respect"
Vorlons:"Respect!From whom?"
Enterprise:"We can't allow you to stop our mission.Full impusle"
Vorlons:"Disobidient"
With a single beam from the Vorlon ship "Enterprise" is destroyed!
Well, that is kind of funny, but I don't think too accurate, even though Vorlons could surely destroy the Enterprise. Picard would never ask to be shown respect under those circumstances, or say "We can't allow you to stop our mission," when the "mission" was just exploration, and not a life or death thing. I think there would be a lot more discussion, before any action. And, the Enterprise might well retreat from an unknown part of space whose residents are adamant that they not trespass.
Also, I don't believe we know that the Vorlons kill trespassers. We just know that they never return. For all we know, they might just throw them into hyperspace, where they wander until they die. Or maybe they keep them all on the Vorlon homeworld, in stasis. We just don't know.
Truth_Seeker
Regular
I remember the conversation in "The Fall Of Centauri Prime" about the defences of the Vorlon Homeworld.I think Delenn said that every ship that tried to go there was destroyed but it's not clear whether the crews were
spared or killed.This would be pretty cruel even for the Vorlons.
spared or killed.This would be pretty cruel even for the Vorlons.
Garovorkin
Regular
But the Borg have shield technology for one thing, yes the shadow weapons are good but I don't think they would be very effective against the Borge. I know the shadows themselves can phase through walls but they still have a physical form which can be effect by Borge nano probes. All A Borge drone would have to do is infect one Show being assimilate it and effectively learn enough to be able to counter whatever the shadows could do. I think conceivably the Borge could probably even take down the Vorlons as well of course that one could definitely go either way.
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Galahad
Regular
I don't believe shields would be any defence agaist jump points. They aren't designed to punch holes in ships but punch holes in space. You wouldn't be penetrating the outer hull, you'd be "de-coring" the ship from within. If aships in the way the energy expended would just tear it apart. Even if shielding could hold up again the power generated by a jump point formation, there would be a significant reduction of mass within the ship... probably leaving just a husk. The other thing is that if shielding could interfere with jump point formation, you might end up with an extremely unstable jump point that would generate a massive explosion.
You are also forgetting that the borg assimilate after a number of shots (although seeing as we are not talking about weaponry... adaptation is pretty much irrelevent). How would they adapt when it would prettymuch only take one jump formation to cripple/destroy the ship
You are also forgetting that the borg assimilate after a number of shots (although seeing as we are not talking about weaponry... adaptation is pretty much irrelevent). How would they adapt when it would prettymuch only take one jump formation to cripple/destroy the ship
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Garovorkin
Regular
The Borg cube would in the end win
Garovorkin
Regular
I should have explained in more detail, The shadow ship would not be fighting just one cube but the entire Borg Collective. your forgetting that they are all linked via subspace,they might destroy the first Cube maybe the second but not the third. the shields would adapt. Opening a jump space would not work, because the Borg can do something no race in the B5 universe including shadows and Vorlons and thats Travel FTLWarp speed in normal space, which I don't think the shadows would be able to pinpoint from Hyperspace, plus the Borg have transwarp capability.and since the shadows have a physical form they can be assimilated . In other words, for the shadows it would be game over. The Borg could beat every race in the B5 universe, they would not be able to defeat the aliens in Thirdspace However.
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KoshFan
Regular
I think Lyta would give the Collective a run for their money, however. She'd be able to control them all quite easily; they're used to taking orders. She might have to wrastle with the queen a bit, but the queen might not be ready for a telepath fight.
The Borg would also make the mistake of picking Sheridan to be their speaker, and once Delenn had broken him loose of that, Sheridan would be just as good at fighting Borg (in the White Stars, of course) as Picard was.
The Borg would also make the mistake of picking Sheridan to be their speaker, and once Delenn had broken him loose of that, Sheridan would be just as good at fighting Borg (in the White Stars, of course) as Picard was.
Garovorkin
Regular
Kosh Fan Lyta is good but in the end the Borg would assimilate her, we are talking millions of minds over subspace and has it ever occurred to anyone that in their long existence that Borg might have have assimilate other telepathic species, and might have a way of effectively dealing with them. Just because Picard got out from under the Borg does not mean Sheridan would be as lucky. Even with the White Stars the Mimbari would still lose to the Borg. The vorlons might actually have a chance against the Borg but not other race in the B5 universe could beat them. main reason borg have FTL/ Warp capability in normal spce and the weapons of all the major races are less powerful then federation tech or Borg weapons.
Garovorkin
Regular
As much as i like B5 if you Put Earthforce the Mimbari, the Centuri , the Drak the Shadows or any of the B5 civilizations into a war setting in the the federation universe with their jump engines Fusion reactorsand Lasers the Federation and her allies with their shields and mater antimatter ,phaser and FTL/Warp in normal space would beat each and every one of including the Vorlons .The federation can barely stand up to the Borg so what do you image they who are more powerful would do to them. Shadow tech and all B5 compared to federation and Borg tech is a running joke. lets also remember what Borg nanoporbes could do to organically based technology like the Shadows,Vorlons and the Mimbari possess. Also you forget the most devastating of all federation and Borg tech Transporter technology, Game Set and Match.
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Garovorkin
Regular
If it simply one Borg vs on isolated cube , maybe the shadow ship might have a chance , but even a single cube on its own is a microcosim of the collective, they would adapt to the shadows. I don't think that shadow beam weapons are more powerful then say federation phasers we know that when the enterprise first met the Borg, the Borg were able to adapt to their phasers.
Interesting, so how did the borg do against the organic tech of species 8472 (or whatever the number is). Oh yeah, that’s right they got there collective arses handed to them and they failed to adapt. Or did you miss that particular story.
Garovorkin
Regular
8472 had nanoprobes of their own which i believe prevented assimilation by the Borg, I don't see any evidence that the shadows had similar nano probe technology which could stop the Borg from assimilating them.
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Where did you get the nano probes for 8472? Is it in a book, ‘cause it sure weren’t from Voyager TV series.
As an aside – you probably already know this, but some don’t. The guys who designed the 8472 ships and aliens were Foundation Imaging – the very people (specifically Ron Thornton & John Teska) who came up with the Vorlons and Shadow ships seen in B5.
As an aside – you probably already know this, but some don’t. The guys who designed the 8472 ships and aliens were Foundation Imaging – the very people (specifically Ron Thornton & John Teska) who came up with the Vorlons and Shadow ships seen in B5.
Garovorkin
Regular
Triple I am not discounting your argument, you did raise a very good point and I had considered the issue of 8472. By argueing the way I am not denigrating or desparaging B5 Tech or shadow tech. But when you go from federation universe to B5, Borge tech has some significant advantages over Shadow tech and fed tech has huge advantages over B5 tech. think what both sides possess.
Garovorkin
Regular
In Voyager sick bay, actually now that i think about it they were not exactly nano probes that 8472 has but it virus, excuse me I stand corrected, on that one. But the doctor was able to taylor the nano probes to defeat 8472's organic advantage, but we have no evidence that the shadows biology would have that kind of defense against Borg assimilation. Also its possible in the case of 8472 that there is a chance that the Borge could have solved the problem of 8472 on their own at some point,
