24: Season 4 (SPOILERS)

[Sinclair]

Chloe's back!! Yippee!! She must be just like Tony and has her own personal wormhole to get places so quickly. Whatever happened to Milo? They need to bring that dude back.

So, Jack goes undercover with Mrs. Araz in order to get to Marwan. Marwan sets them up, exposes Mrs. Araz and kills her (well, presumably), and they take Jack to places unknown. I'm wondering how he was able to outsmart CTU. Is he just that smart or is there something else at play (there'd better not be another mole)? If he was that smart, I'd think he'd be aware of the cameras on the ends of the tunnel.

I'm still thinking that the Air Force guy is about to steal a plane and possibly fly into Air Force One and killing the President or something similar. Something major is obviously about to happen with him.

Paul, is he going to live or die? Honestly, I'm not sure. It could go either way. Both ways could present major strains for Jack and Audrey's relationship. He dies, she blames him and ends it. He lives, she goes back to Paul and still blames Jack.

 

[PillowRock]

Marwan sets them up, exposes Mrs. Araz and kills her (well, presumably), and they take Jack to places unknown. I'm wondering how he was able to outsmart CTU. Is he just that smart or is there something else at play (there'd better not be another mole)?

It may just be something very simple from his POV, like knowing that Mr. Araz didn't know that professor, or not believing that he would ever mention anything to his wife that she wasn't "authorized" to know.

I'm still thinking that the Air Force guy is about to steal a plane and possibly fly into Air Force One and killing the President or something similar. Something major is obviously about to happen with him.

Something major, yes, but I am not at all certain that the President is a target. I found myself wondering if the "President is on a very tight schedule" comment and the President's "just between us" conversation with Heller are adding up to the President having been angling for martial law powers all along, and being complicit in the attacks to bring that situation about. Another alternative is that the writers are planting that seed in viewers' minds as a misdirection.

 

[PillowRock]

Just got caught up with 24 videotape watching. I had been staying out of this thread while it was a potential spoiler area for me.

It is possible that the company did not clear everyone or employed people who had failed their clearances.

As I said before, CTU already knows Marwan was working on the override. They will know no later than the beginning of office hours in the morning whether he had been cleared. Jack and Paul were only looking at Marwan's files. I don't see how Jack and Paul's efforts could have exposed such a problem that wasn't already exposed anyway.

Not many cleaners will wait 4 months before taking up a job and scientists can get a little awkward.

Cleaners (janitors, whatever) often don't wait. Everything gets put "away", the flashing ceiling lights get turned on (indicating uncleared people in the area), and cleared employees escort them on their daily passes through those parts of the building.

Scientists / engineers just have to be assigned to unclassified work until the paperwork comes through. A site like what we saw (CEO's office and development labs all in the same building) will pretty much always have a mix of project types in different parts of the building. It can sometimes get a bit awkward for manpower scheduling, but it has been the reality of life / management in those industries forever.

Blowing up the place to hide someone else failing their clearance is a little extreme. Now covering up faking your own clearance is a different matter.

I still don't see how that hides much in that regard. The governement will know who was and wasn't cleared. After everything that happened on this day, feds will lock down that building immediately and go over it with a fine tooth comb. There will still be more than enough hardcopy stuff around to establish who was working in what parts of the building. (Not to mention what will come out interviewing all of the employees. I'm sure lists of "who worked in this lab" won't be that hard to compile.)


I am now pretty satisfied that the two underlings had some personal involvement to hide. However, if the CEO guy was in on it then they wouldn't have had to use the lame, non-sensical lines of reason to convince to act the way they wanted him to. And if he is clean, then I still think that it was lazy writing to have him buy the line of reasoning that he was being sold, because he would have to be a *complete* moron to do that (given the knowledge and experiance implicit in his position). And being that big of a moron isn't consistent with the little bit of backstory on him that we were getting through the dialog.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

When under pressure people panic. They forget things like questioning the workers will show up most things in the files. Although blowing the building up also kills the workers - except at night

If a working version of the machine has been sold to terrorists then the files may contain information that has not been revealed to the government.

I found this like on Boeing's recruitment website, "Ability to Obtain Clearances - US Citizenship Required". A classified defence project means legal discrimination against immigrants such as Koreans, Irish and Latin-Americans. I have not seen the series, so any yellow skins or South American accents?

 

[PillowRock]

Although blowing the building up also kills the workers - except at night

They didn't blow up the building. The set off an EMP "bomb" to trash all of the electroincs. The building is intact. All hardcopy files are intact. Everything previously stored on CD or DVD (optical media, rather than the magnetic media than an EMP wipes out) is intact. No employees were injured or killed by the "detonation" (Jack Bauer, CTU agent and series lead, was the only character in the room with it when it went off .... and he appears just fine).

If a working version of the machine has been sold to terrorists then the files may contain information that has not been revealed to the government.

From the POV of the two other corporate officers, this is probably what they were really up to. However, the CEO couldn't have been in on it .... or else there would have been no reason for his subordinates to use the other (ludicrous) arguments to convince him to give the orders that they wanted. Those arguments made no sense, and the CEO should have rejected them.

I found this like on Boeing's recruitment website, "Ability to Obtain Clearances - US Citizenship Required". A classified defence project means legal discrimination against immigrants such as Koreans, Irish and Latin-Americans. I have not seen the series, so any yellow skins or South American accents?

Leaving aside that there are plenty of people with "yellow skin" who are natural born citizens, and that the disclaimer doesn't rule out naturalized citizens who may still have an accent .....
So far the 3 corporate officers that we have seen are middle aged (or slightly older) white men, the security guards that we saw in the building were younger white men, I think that the guy who received the order to set of the EMP was 30-something white guy, the leader of the corporate commandos (to whom the coporate officer lied about why they needed to recover Jack and the printout) was an African-American man, the employee whose computer directories CTU was searching (the primary link between the terrorists and the the company) was a man of Arabic descent (with a more Anglo-Saxon sounding false name). Apparently the fictional McClendon-Forester corporation doesn't employ women.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

I have worked in defence companies where all the bosses are white males. There was a period in the early eighties when women took jobs as defence computer programmers but it went out of fashion.

If the top boss is too naive then he may be in on it but has not told the middle mangers - they could be the dupes. The EMP pulse will have destroyed all the emails and backup copies of the emails - unless copies were stored off site or printed out. Any orders given by email will have vanished.

It does sound like an EMP machine has been sold to the terrorists. Alternatively the terrorists are fakes; they could be a gang of blackmailers doing it for the money.

 

[Sinclair]

Another decent episode. I'm getting pretty annoyed with the petty bickering between Edgar and Chloe.

I wonder why they brought in another person from division to take charge? Did they not trust Michelle to handle the situation, or was this just some extra expertise?

Chloe-what a stupid bitch, going up to Audrey and saying all that shit.

Jack gets back safely, of course, and they have Marwan's current location for the time being. I just wonder what they're going to end up doing with Behrooz.

Looks like we're about to find out just what the hell that guy's going to do with the plane. They promised a huge twist for next week's episode, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[GKarsEye]

A set-up episode (like Deadwood this week).

The Edgar/Chloe thing is 24's idea of character development. Edgar is assuming his role as leader, standing up for himself.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

I think the shocker won't be such a shock to fans of Babylon 5. Does Earthforce One ring a bell?

I missed most of the previous week's episode. Did they tell us anything about the pilot? I figure he's disgruntled ex-military, probably has a terminal condition, from some kind of Gulf War Syndrome, couldn't get treatment from the VA, and is doing this strictly for the money and revenge. I believe he is terminal because he is not concerned about landing the plane. I know he's not a true believer because Marwan is paying him. The only guys who want money and don't want to stay alive to enjoy it are those who are already dying. It's probably going to funnel to his family. After next week, there may not be any identifiable remains of this guy, expecially if he has a tactical nuke on board. I thought he was going to fly what looked like a T-16, but the F117A Stealth Fighter is a whole different ballgame.

Behrooz is shitting bricks. I would.

 

[Chilli]

As for the landing .. it could also be that he's only planning to let the plane crash but not go down with it. The tech guy did mention that the parachute was the only way out .. I'm guessing he's counting on that. Since it does seem like money was what got him .. and since he doesn't seem like the martyr type .. seems like the most likely thing to me

 

[PillowRock]

it could also be that he's only planning to let the plane crash but not go down with it. The tech guy did mention that the parachute was the only way out .. I'm guessing he's counting on that.

I agree. That would always have been his plan anyway. There would be no place that he could land and hope to get away from (not being in custody) after any potential mission that would be worth this risk. Therefore, anyone who wanted to walk away afterwards would have to be figuring on doing a D.B. Cooper. To such a person a plane that is only disabled with respect to landing is just as good as a fully operational one.

However, ........ we are once again operating in a logic impaired universe.

What? Nobody in the government is capable of doing anything without being told to by CTU? Local police "distribute" a report about a military pilot's family to "all agencies" (or some such phrase) ..... but apparently that doesn't include the air base that said pilot is flying out of (or any other part of the USAF chain of command)? Or is it that if CTU is distracted and doesn't doesn't spot that report, it would never occur to anyone in the USAF to pull (or at least check with) the pilot whose family is now considered "missing" when he is about to take an apparently routine flight? And not a single person on the flight line or in the support crews or in the towers knows who is supposed to be on duty .... and by sight (he had time to establish relationships and a family residence here; he wasn't the one who was brand new to this posting)? And nobody thinks anything of a maintainance guy who has never been seen before filing a report that a plane is fit to fly? Not even a beginning of the shift introduction? Not even to his immediate superior / supervisor?

C'mon.

 

[PillowRock]

The Edgar/Chloe thing is 24's idea of character development. Edgar is assuming his role as leader, standing up for himself.

Is that what that was?

It seemed to me to be a bit more of an object lesson in the "Peter Principle". Edgar was very competent at his old job. Move him one step on the ladder, to where he has more balls to juggle from more directions and has to delegate enough to keep them all going, and he is not very competent. At least, not on the first day in that job.

Actually, Edgar reminded me of nothing so much as a crabby, over-tired child. Chloe was only marginally better, but then social interaction has never been her long suit.

In their defense, both have issues going on that have them in an irritable, on edge, raw nerves sort of state: Edgar with his mother-in-the-meltdown thing, and Chloe with her whole arrest and firing thing. Have two people in that mental state interacting in a pressurized environment and you are bound to get some snapping back and forth.

 

[PillowRock]

Chloe-what a stupid bitch, going up to Audrey and saying all that shit.

Well, yeah .... but it was classic Chloe. She has always been completely clueless at anything vaguely resembling social interaction. Like she said when she started apologizing "I'm always doing that."

 

[GKarsEye]

Edgar with his mother-in-the-meltdown thing

I believe that was his mother. Men usually don't get that upset when their mother-in-law dies.

 

[Recoil]

I think the shocker won't be such a shock to fans of Babylon 5. Does Earthforce One ring a bell?

...Did they tell us anything about the pilot? I figure he's disgruntled ex-military, probably has a terminal condition, from some kind of Gulf War Syndrome, couldn't get treatment from the VA, and is doing this strictly for the money and revenge. I believe he is terminal because he is not concerned about landing the plane...

A couple things. First, ever since a guy in an Airforce uniform appeared, I began thinking "OK, they are going to try to knock the President out of the sky."

Second, they told us nothing about that guy at all. He could be a mercenary. Although to be able to fly an F-117, he needs experience, so from that standpoint I guess we have to assume he is ex-military.

As far his him being terminal, I wouldn't assume that at all. In fact, your logic doesn't make sense. If he is doing this for the money (Marwan said he is getting paid a lot), then he HAS to plan on getting out and living. I mean, if hes going on a suicide mission, why get paid right? Nah, hes just a guy who is in it for the money, and whatever personal reason turned him against his country. He probably figures on ejecting the plane, since he doesnt care of the plane comes down on a town or not. Thats why he wasnt concerned about it.

He wants to eject and get paid, thats pretty much it.

I didnt watch the previews for next week (I never do) but Im not sure ill be that surprised. Guess we will see in a weeks time. Either way, even if its not a surprise, I think its a cool plot twist, and 24 is just the show to not have the day saved at the 11th hour, so anything can happen.

 

[Sinclair]

And nobody thinks anything of a maintainance guy who has never been seen before filing a report that a plane is fit to fly? Not even a beginning of the shift introduction? Not even to his immediate superior / supervisor?

I thought about that too. I seriously doubt the plane would really be cleared to take off on this never-seen-before guy's word.

Edgar with his mother-in-the-meltdown thing

I believe that was his mother. Men usually don't get that upset when their mother-in-law dies.

I think he knew that. I had to read it twice to realize he didn't say mother -in-law. I think he just meant 'his mother dying in the meltdown thing'.

He wants to eject and get paid, thats pretty much it.

That's been my take on the whole thing.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

A couple things. First, ever since a guy in an Airforce uniform appeared, I began thinking "OK, they are going to try to knock the President out of the sky."

Second, they told us nothing about that guy at all. He could be a mercenary. Although to be able to fly an F-117, he needs experience, so from that standpoint I guess we have to assume he is ex-military.

As far his him being terminal, I wouldn't assume that at all. In fact, your logic doesn't make sense. If he is doing this for the money (Marwan said he is getting paid a lot), then he HAS to plan on getting out and living. I mean, if hes going on a suicide mission, why get paid right? Nah, hes just a guy who is in it for the money, and whatever personal reason turned him against his country. He probably figures on ejecting the plane, since he doesnt care of the plane comes down on a town or not. Thats why he wasnt concerned about it.

He wants to eject and get paid, thats pretty much it.

Did you read my post? My conclusion could be wrong, but I did offer a theory as to why he would want money AND plan to die.

I think your logic is off. You're telling me a military (or ex) pilot is willing to kill the President for a payoff? It's got to be personal on some major level. The only people who attempt to assassinate leaders are people with personal / mental problems, foreign agents, and political extremists / terrorists. I don't think he's one of the latter two.

I don't think he or his survivors (if I'm right) can even enjoy the money in this country. They will have survailance tape of him from somewhere on the base. Eventually, body or no, they will determine his identity. If he indeed has a family, they would have to be overseas. If he survives, he will have to exit the country and go deep.

 

[Sinclair]

It looks like my assumption was correct: Anderson was going after Air Force One. Now it remains to be seen if anyone survived or not, but the VP was already informed to be ready to take be sworn in and take action.

It seemed to me that the chick that impersonated and killed the FBI chick was pointless. She didn't really do anything but kill another agent, and then she got hosed. I guess it led Jack to the hard drive though.

Of course we have even more CTU drama now with Tony, Michelle, and her new love interest Bill.

So, Paul's going to live, but what's Audrey going to end up doing? My guess is she'll end up going back to him.

Next week's episode should be pretty interesting.

 

[GKarsEye]

It would be pretty ballsy to kill the president off the show.

I hate that CTU office drama shit. Except for Chloe being nice to Edgar, that was funny.

And what was the point about the sappy president with his son thing? Zzzz....

Jack had some pretty sweet kills.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

That was an attempt to humanize the Prez before knocking him off. The way the scene was cut, it certainly looks as tough the blast took out the President and his son immediately.

My bad on the Anderson terminal illness theory. Instead, they made him dishonorably discharged. Still, hard to buy that he would do it for the money, but that's the way they wrote it.