Encounter Suits

raven2032 · May 16, 2001

We know that in million years humans will go to Vorlon Prime, but what of the other races that fought on the side of light, especially the Minbari? I think it is resonable to assume that at least the Minbari will last a million years and most likely join the humans on Vorlon Prime.

So just a thought...

Could the differences between the two types of Vorlon encounter suits be because they are actually two different species each with it's own style of encounter suit?

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What are those Earth creatures called? Feathers, long bill, webbed feet .. go 'quack'?"

"Cats."

"Cats. I'm being nibbled to death by cats."

Kribu · May 16, 2001

Interesting question. I've always supposed, though, that it was just a matter of personal preference - Kosh no. 1 liked greenish suits, Kosh no. 2 (Ulkesh) thought he looked better in purple.

I wonder... we never saw any other Vorlons besides those two, did we? So we don't know if there were perhaps Vorlons running around (hmm, wrong word... OK, moving around) in yellow, blue, silver etc encounter suits...

But seriously, I'm assuming that they didn't need an encounter suit on their home world, or in their ships. Thus I don't think that the look of the suit is too important.

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"You've misspelled this. There's no 'Y' in liberties."
"Oh, go away. Repress someone else."

Sinclair · May 16, 2001

It seems to me that the Vorlons don't really seem to care what others think of them, so they wouldn't really care what their encounter suits looked like. But if this is true, then why wouldn't they all just have the same one? Maybe there is a little part of them that does want some type of individuality, so they pick or make the suits as they choose. This certainly wouldn't be consistent with what we know about the Vorlons though. Maybe the different suits do represent different clans or their status or something. I'm not really sure.

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You name it, sooner or later, everyone comes to Babylon 5.
-Commander Jeffrey David Sinclair, The Gathering

Sinclair · May 16, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Kribu:

I wonder... we never saw any other Vorlons besides those two, did we?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We did see two Vorlons in In The Beginning, but as to wether or not they were the same ones, I don't think they were. We also saw that other one at the end of the Shadow War when Sheridan told them to "Get the hell out of our galaxy!" I think that was a different one too.

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You name it, sooner or later, everyone comes to Babylon 5.
-Commander Jeffrey David Sinclair, The Gathering

SamGadsby · May 16, 2001

Well, we know the Vorlons used organic technology so maybe the suit is organic. Maybe the color deals with how old the suit is. Or maybe, since it grows, each suit looks different when it is made. I think I heard something somewhere that if we used someones genetic code, we could not use it to find out what they look like. So the genetic code of the suits wouldn't decide what they look like.

Maybe the vorlons got sick with one color, or they got sick of always asking "Who are you?" to find out which suit their friend is in.

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**DONOTDELETE** · May 16, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>they got sick of always asking "Who are you?" to find out which suit their friend is in.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LoL...

Vorlon fashions explained in one sentence.

Well, it has been stated that *at least* the Humans and Minbari are considered to be First Ones after a million years.

I would think that their encounter suits are *very* different from those of the Vorlons (about the Shadows I don't know if they used encounter suits). The natural form of a Vorlon resembled that of a squid or jellyfish... An encounter suit that feels right for a being developed from squid-like ancestors may not fit the tastes of those with human-like ancestors.

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Canned flarn is a sacrilege.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited May 16, 2001).]

Joseph DeMartino · May 17, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>We did see two Vorlons in In The Beginning, but as to wether or not they were the same ones, I don't think they were.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are, Kosh and Ulkesh. They are also the pair who meet Valen circa 1260 when he arrives with B4.

The Vorlon in "Into the Fire" is an interesting question. Since the whole confrontation takes place in the minds of Sheridan, Delenn and others it is quite possible that several Vorlons participated and that what we saw was a "generic" Vorlon image, culled from their memories of Kosh and Ulkesh, rather than a particular individual. (I can't remember what color the encounter suit was.)

If it was meant to be a particular Vorlon, then "he" is the third and last we see in the series.

JMS has said that the Minbari and the Humans both make it to "First One" status, but that the Narn and the Centauri do not. About the various League worlds he has remained silent. (But I wouldn't bet the mortgage check on the Drazi, myself.

)

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

The One Who Was · May 17, 2001

"JMS has said that the Minbari and the Humans both make it to "First One" status, but that the Narn and the Centauri do not."

That would explain Kosh telling Sinclair "They are a dying people, we should let them pass"
Sinclair: "Who the Narn or the Centauri?"
Kosh: "Yes"

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"Faith Manages"

**DONOTDELETE** · May 17, 2001

The Drazi wouldn't make very good First Ones unless they forget the green/purple thing...

Imagine First Ones fighting intergalactic wars every five years or so. "Green chicken, purple car - must fight!" That wouldn't give the younger species any chance to develop. It might drive them mad instead.

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Canned flarn is a sacrilege.

Sven · May 17, 2001

I´m unsure if the Mimbari and the Humans will become 2 First Ones. Because we have seen that Sinclaire was transformed into Valen so it could be possible that this individual we have seen 1.000.000 years in the future is also something between. It has only taken on a human look because it works with datas abaut theire human part of history. That would explain why no other species seems to be able to become one of the First Ones, because humans and Mimbari were both manipulated by Vorlons (Lyta). Possibly this race is then called Rangers.

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RMcD · May 17, 2001

I hope sooner or later we get to see the Vorlon homeworld without having to wait a million years. I thought perhaps that would have made a good episode of Crusade, since it would be a very logical place to look for a cure to the shadow plague.

We never find out much about them anyway. Since they call themselves an Empire, doesn't that mean they should have an Emperor? Or are they like the Centauri, who have a Republic but no president?

The encounter suit in The Deconstruction of Falling Stars looked just like a Vorlon suit, so maybe they are made to look that way for a reason.

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**DONOTDELETE** · May 17, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sven: possibly this race is then called Rangers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just re-watched "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars"...

Maybe really - the last ship leaving Earth had no external insignia other than a very visible symbol of the Anla-Shok... it might truly be that the Rangers are no longer an organisation but a species. Stranger things may happen.

But I also noticed that the person transfering the records used an encounter suit quite similar to a human body... bearing only some resemblance to Vorlon encounter suits and having no Minbari features. That would suggest the Rangers are still an organisation having members from many species...

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Canned flarn is a sacrilege.

Galahad · May 26, 2001

JMS definintely said that the Humans and Minbari make it, and the Narn and Centauri don't. He also said that it didn't necessarily mean they died, they just did not evolve to the higher state the other two managed. I believe that the Human and Minbari are still tow seperate races BUT I believe that the human DNA from Sinclair into Minbari, and the Minbari DNA from Delenn, allowed a specific gene from each race into the other. I think we had two peices of a puzzle, which when put together kick started a long process that ends a million years later in a physical translation into first one status. As the crossover of DNA was set up by presumably first one tech, I also believe that the Human and Minbari peoples will have the ability to do something similar to create their successors. As they raise the younger races, they could choose a few who showed the potential to walk among the stars as giants, and introduce foreign DNA into them, culturing them to grow as life forms. Who knows in another billion years, the Narn and the Centauri, or even the Drazi might be chosen.

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"We Live for the One. We die for the One!"

**DONOTDELETE** · May 26, 2001

To me it seems not a matter of evolving from beings of matter to beings of energy (that is inevitable as time is infinite) or being chosen by previous First Ones (all choices can be changed, besides the only thing the Vorlons really chose was to create telepaths for use as weapons).

Instead of that, the most crucial obstacle to reaching First One status seems to be simply learning to live and develop in peace... without starting "great burns" once in every few thousand years.

I would very much hope that mankind is able to learn such a lesson... but never easily.

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Canned flarn is a sacrilege.

**DONOTDELETE** · May 26, 2001

I'd agree with Galahad pretty much. Once the Humans & Minbari evolve and/or use Vorlon technology to become higher lifeforms, they might try and help the other races grow. The universe has a habit of balancing though, so that makes me wonder who balances the Humans & Minbari? Who thinks the opposite of them?

The Centauri had too much of a dark tendancy to evolve and brought the Narn down to their level. Though G'Kar was a good influence (once he went through his spiritual evolution) and Vir was probably a good emperor in difficult times, they, particularly Vir since he accepted power, could just have been isolated good guys amongst their people. Like Palantir amongst the latter day proud Numenorean kings.

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**DONOTDELETE** · May 27, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>who balances the Humans & Minbari?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they remember what the last Shadow War was about... and how it was stopped... then they won't need balancing. They will recognize their time to leave the galaxy.

However, if they won't remember, they will balance each other - the Humans being likely candidates for new Shadows and the Minbari for new Vorlons.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited May 26, 2001).]

hypatia · May 27, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sinclair:
We did see two Vorlons in In The Beginning, but as to wether or not they were the same ones, I don't think they were. We also saw that other one at the end of the Shadow War when Sheridan told them to "Get the hell out of our galaxy!" I think that was a different one too.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And what did the comment "we are ALL KOSH" actually mean when it came up in B5?

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Galahad · May 27, 2001

I think it refers to the telepathic nature of the Vorlons. They are all Kosh, they are all Ulkesh, when one dies they are all diminished, when one suffers all suffer. If you pardon the play on a biblical context, they are one body with many parts. I actually think the Vorlon Empire might actually reflect St. Paul's teaching quite well, but not in a Christian context.

This is why a Vorlon civil war would just be nuts, and unlikely, this is why Kosh was so radical. In the midst of complete order, Kosh goes and smacks Ulkesh about a bit until they both die. This is chaos, no wonder the Vorlons went nuts! It was flying in the face of everything they believed in.

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"We Live for the One. We die for the One!"

solaris5 · May 27, 2001

LOL, Vorlons smacking each other, that'd be funny, especially if they were still in their encounter suits while doing it

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2 + 2 is not 4!! This is the kinda stuff that's gonna get you started on crazy ideas like freedom and democracy. Just say no! -- Stalin Wannabe

Joseph DeMartino · May 27, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>We know that in million years humans will go to Vorlon Prime<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, we don't know this, since it is nowhere stated in the series or the "canon" novels, and JMS has not said so on line, to the best of my knowledge. It is a reasonable hypothesis, but hardly a proven fact.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited May 27, 2001).]

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