Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

[Sindatur]

Exactly my point. So the first Cylon war was how long ago? Adama is maybe 60? So 30 years in the past? This show is now talking about THOUSANDS of years. Here is where I feel things fall apart.

IF what you say is correct. This all happened before crap. OK so the Centurions in the first Cylon War (the Razor war) created the Hybrids and the Skinjob between then and present day galactica...then what we have is a case where the "Earth" they are on, evolved completely independant of what happened in the Colonies --- and way BEFORE it.

However, I have a problem with the Pilot movie. They received a message that there were 12 models. We only saw 7. These "Final Five" from all they are showing us have NOTHING to do with Skinjobs invented by the Centurions in the very recent history. So why are they considered part of the model line? Hell from all we have seen, they dont appear to have any copies, they are all originals!

It would make more sense, if they had said in the Pilot that there are 7 models...because from what we all have seen so far, they final 5 and the rest are NOTING alike, and not related at all.

So this "Earth" is 100% Cylons? Then where did the humans in the colonies come from? Or where did they go? They can't sit there and say that all the bones in the Earth planet are Cylon and then reveal to us later that EVERYONE is a Cylon because --- bullshit --- they would have detected that back since...I dont know...for EVER.

So there are tons of holes and I think things are getting pulled farther apart. I guess we will see soon enough, but there is a lot here that just flat out makes zero sense from many angles.



Excellent point! What is so damn hard about that? Also funny, in the last episode, they discovered rather quickly that all of the bones on "Earth" were Cylon. Apparently it isn't that hard to tell after all. Granted, we had Baltar inventing the Cylon detection process and he didn't want to do it for obvious reasons, so he stalled, but there were other times and places when this could have come out.

Hm...I wonder if the 'cylon" skeletons are skin job types, and the human descendants are like Nicky and Hera, and perhaps the Final 5 are the original 5 of all the Cylons

 

[GKarsEye]

My question is, WHEN was it mentioned that the Colonies had a "cataclysm" 2,000 years ago? What was it? I don't remember that episode or the parts behind it.

I think that refers to when all the people lived on one homeworld (Kobol?) then set out into space, eventually settling on the 13 colonies.

Another interesting point, is how he pretty much states that he had no idea that the "Final Five" cylon models would be different, until well into Season 3 (of a four Season show). That certainly does go along with some of the "boy they didn't have this stuff figured out" mindset thats floating around. He also states that they didn't decide who the final cylon was until the end of Season 3, and frankly, they finalized it between the end of Season 3 and the start of Season 4.

B5 spoiled us I think. A planned 5 yr story is unique.
Lost is another show where they're making stuff up as they go along, with a year maybe 2 in advance for the major plot points. And so it can never all fit together as elegantly as B5.

Sometimes I think the whole "this has happened before and will again" is also a big "in-joke" in that a lot of the new series really IS pulling from the core of the original. So it happened before in 1978 and is happening again in 2004-2008. Its not as much a reboot as people think, just told in a different way.

I remember reading an interview w/ Moore a while back where he expressed a great admiration for the premise of the original BSG and how bold he thought it was, just that a lot of executed poorly and in a tone that didn't fit the theme.

Its simple , the people of Kobol were machines , like the human model Cylons, they created their own version that rebelled and evolved and in turn repeated the same history. I bet you that who ever created the kobol machines were machines themselves, every event in history is them repeated the same mistakes of the original humans. they are stuck in a repeating program loop. its probably been happening for god knows how many thousands of years. the same people reoccurred over and over again. its just a thought. This idea occurred to me when they reached kobol,

What about Baltar's ability to detect human from Cylon? If not for that, the "they're all machines" theory would be one of the most popular ones amongst fans.

I actually like that the final Cylon is Ellen. Honestly it's just because I like the character so much. I think we've all known some Ellen types in real life, and frankly those kind of women fascinate me. The relationship with her and Tigh, even and especially before he was revealed as a Cylon, resonated with me a lot.

 

[vacantlook]

What about Baltar's ability to detect human from Cylon? If not for that, the "they're all machines" theory would be one of the most popular ones amongst fans.

As far as I can remember, they only showed Baltar testing Boomer. When it came up "cylon", he freaked out and made the detection program return a result of "human" for everyone. After they found out Baltar's program didn't work, did they ever go back and retest anyone; I can't remember?

 

[GKarsEye]

Yeah I don't remember those details either, but here's the thing that gets me: how hard can it really be to know if someone is a machine or not? I mean, if you REALLY absolutely have to know, can't you at least slice open someone's arm? Painful, yes, and not a good way to test every single person, but... man, I dunno, an entire civilization existing for generations not knowing they're robots? That would be absurd.

 

[Alluveal]

As far as I can remember, they only showed Baltar testing Boomer. When it came up "cylon", he freaked out and made the detection program return a result of "human" for everyone. After they found out Baltar's program didn't work, did they ever go back and retest anyone; I can't remember?

In one episode, Doc tested someone for "cylon-ness" and it was brought up very casually. I can't remember when. I think it was the Bulldog episode. He told Adama that Bulldog was definitely not a cylon. Probably just an inconsistency.

 

[vacantlook]

In one episode, Doc tested someone for "cylon-ness" and it was brought up very casually. I can't remember when. I think it was the Bulldog episode. He told Adama that Bulldog was definitely not a cylon. Probably just an inconsistency.

"Bulldog": is that the callsign of that ol' friend or whatever of Adama's shows up, the one played by the black dude who was on <i>Alias</i>? "Hero" is the name of the episode, I see, looking at the episode listing on the back of the DVD case; that's the very next episode I have to watch on my watch through of the season three DVDs, now that I finally got my butt around to buying them. I'll keep a look-out for what they say about testing for cylon-ness in it.

 

[Alluveal]

"Bulldog": is that the callsign of that ol' friend or whatever of Adama's shows up, the one played by the black dude who was on <i>Alias</i>? "Hero" is the name of the episode, I see, looking at the episode listing on the back of the DVD case; that's the very next episode I have to watch on my watch through of the season three DVDs, now that I finally got my butt around to buying them. I'll keep a look-out for what they say about testing for cylon-ness in it.

Yep, that's the one. And apparently Doc had his own cylon test at this point. Lazy slip-up, I think, on part of the writers.

 

[Galahad]

Yep, that's the one. And apparently Doc had his own cylon test at this point. Lazy slip-up, I think, on part of the writers.

Was it a slip up? Didn't he get it by comparing the blood sample of Hera with normal human blood and it was shown to be structurally different (hence the decision to use it to treat Roslin's cancer).

 

[Alluveal]

Was it a slip up? Didn't he get it by comparing the blood sample of Hera with normal human blood and it was shown to be structurally different (hence the decision to use it to treat Roslin's cancer).

Could have been. I haven't rewatched anything in a while of Galactica. It just seemed like the cylon test was a huge deal and then BAM, Doc has one out of the blue. Booo.

 

[Galahad]

Try the episode Epiphanies. By that point, the fleet sceintific/medical personnel have an advantage. They know Sharon is a cylon and they know the child she is carrying is hybrid. Baltar in protesting to save Hera's life state that the differences in Hera's blood may possibly give her amazing regenerative properties (which Roslin uses to treat herself).

Having a blood sample of a known cylon and a known cylon hybrid to compare against human blood samples would enable the Doc to work out the composition diffrences between all three. Therefore at this point, all he has to do is take a blood sample of any suspect and hey presto if it's structural profile is more akin to cylon than human... you have your cylon infiltrator.

So it's a different test to determine the same result (and a lot cheaper and safer too).

 

[vacantlook]

I'll only say one thing about tonight's episode: Baltar looks good with shorter hair!

 

[Alluveal]

Yeah he does. I was hoping he was the boy's father, but alas . . . poor Hotdog is a daddy.

I'll make this short....

Adama needs to get his head out.
President needs to stop being a baby-girl cheerleader whiny-pants
Gaeta needs to get over it.
Hotdog, well . . . needs some Dr. Spock.
Zerrick needs to just keep being himself because he's Zerrick.
Baltar needs to keep his hair short because it's mega-hawt.

Oh and Six's baby looked like ET.

Suddenly, Kara Thrace is the most sane person on the battlestar. That's just fracked up.

 

[GKarsEye]

Frankly I'm surprised it took this long for some of the people of the fleet to revolt.

 

[Kara Baxter]

Hm...I wonder if the 'cylon" skeletons are skin job types, and the human descendants are like Nicky and Hera, and perhaps the Final 5 are the original 5 of all the Cylons

I believe so. They are different, and don't seem to have programing.

 

[GKarsEye]

It's nice of Ron Moore to have a sense of humor, but man does this bit hit close to home:

http://io9.com/5103494/joss-whedon-and-ron-moore-want-to-kill-seth-green

 

[Recoil]

I saw that and thought the same thing. "Nice that he is willing to jokingly admit it"

Loved the "Let's Frak" sweater.

 

[Recoil]

Tonights episode was rock solid.

My overall opinion of this series is that it has been at its strongest/best when it doesn't try to make statements, and just plays stories out as they might naturally unfold.

When the series first started, trying to escape, needing to get water, food, staying one step ahead of the enemy, it was extremely strong then. Season 2 continued that well with the Pegasus plotline.

I'm even on board with a tiny bit of mythology. The thirteen tribes. Finding the long lost Earth, and many of those concepts.

Where the show started to lose me is when they came up with this "Final Five" Cylon nonsense and strayed from where things originally were heading. The talk of the Cylon Gods, and all of that other stuff started taking the show away from what was really good about it IMO.

Tonight's episode started getting back to its roots. Depicting a mutiny, and a political coup, and I think it did it extremely well.

As for how this show will end? Many have said it will end darkly, but that's pretty general IMO...and especially since the show has always been dark, not exactly a stretch. I've personally felt for some time now that this show is about the end of a Civilization. Starting with a catastrophe (the Cylon attack in the miniseries), the struggle to survive, a glimmer of hope --- even if an unrealistic one --- then when that hope is inevitably smashed, how everything unravels. Government starts to collapse, order is lost, and peoples worst natures --- greed, power hungriness, and paranoia --- tear what is left completely apart.

While there may be some bit at the end of this series about some sort of rebirth, and some stuff about the Final Cylon, I personally think this show will be about the end of days and of civilization.

But I guess we will see in a few short weeks. Anyone else on board with that? Or are there different opinions about a different way the series can end? (I think we all know it wont be happy, but doesnt have to be as grim as I pictured either)

 

[Alluveal]

All I can say about tonight's episode is....

Frrraaaaaaackkkkkkkkkkk!

 

[Garovorkin]

Tonights episode was rock solid.

My overall opinion of this series is that it has been at its strongest/best when it doesn't try to make statements, and just plays stories out as they might naturally unfold.

When the series first started, trying to escape, needing to get water, food, staying one step ahead of the enemy, it was extremely strong then. Season 2 continued that well with the Pegasus plotline.

I'm even on board with a tiny bit of mythology. The thirteen tribes. Finding the long lost Earth, and many of those concepts.

Where the show started to lose me is when they came up with this "Final Five" Cylon nonsense and strayed from where things originally were heading. The talk of the Cylon Gods, and all of that other stuff started taking the show away from what was really good about it IMO.

Tonight's episode started getting back to its roots. Depicting a mutiny, and a political coup, and I think it did it extremely well.

As for how this show will end? Many have said it will end darkly, but that's pretty general IMO...and especially since the show has always been dark, not exactly a stretch. I've personally felt for some time now that this show is about the end of a Civilization. Starting with a catastrophe (the Cylon attack in the miniseries), the struggle to survive, a glimmer of hope --- even if an unrealistic one --- then when that hope is inevitably smashed, how everything unravels. Government starts to collapse, order is lost, and peoples worst natures --- greed, power hungriness, and paranoia --- tear what is left completely apart.

While there may be some bit at the end of this series about some sort of rebirth, and some stuff about the Final Cylon, I personally think this show will be about the end of days and of civilization.

But I guess we will see in a few short weeks. Anyone else on board with that? Or are there different opinions about a different way the series can end? (I think we all know it wont be happy, but doesnt have to be as grim as I pictured either)

Yes that works, the vision with Baltar ,Hera and six, the end of one cycle the beginning of a new and tragic cycle. It won't be a happy ending, not really.

 

[Bester]

I believe the Final 5 will turn out to be Earth's version of the Greyson family. I can't fully explain what I mean by that without spoiling Caprica (the spin-off series). But those of you who have read the spoilers for Caprica should know what I mean