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'Revenge of the Sith' reviews (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Sinclair
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Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
And oddly enough most of the characters in both trilogies speak and understand English - oh, wait, they don't, not really. The presumption has to be that they're speaking some other language which we "hear" as English because the movies were produced by and for English-speakers. Hence "human" is merely a translation of whatever the "real" word would be for the type of intelligent biped that happens to resembe us the most in that galaxy far, far away, where there are clearly no actual humans.
Well, I don't want to get this thread moved to NC-17, so I'll leave this one alone.
Regards,
Joe
And oddly enough most of the characters in both trilogies speak and understand English - oh, wait, they don't, not really. The presumption has to be that they're speaking some other language which we "hear" as English because the movies were produced by and for English-speakers. Hence "human" is merely a translation of whatever the "real" word would be for the type of intelligent biped that happens to resembe us the most in that galaxy far, far away, where there are clearly no actual humans.
Well, I don't want to get this thread moved to NC-17, so I'll leave this one alone.
Regards,
Joe
GKarsEye
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
They could be human. Since it's a "long time ago," maybe some of them came to earth and populated our plant and we're the decendants. Sounds crazy, but that's the way they played it in Farscape.
Anyhoo, I finally saw this the other day. Some thoughts:
- Despite all my jokes, dismissal of its place in pop culture, Jar-Jar, the extreme corniness of the whole thing, the merchandising monstrosity of the franchise and all that other crap, I must say that when the "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." and the Star Wars title hit the screen, I got giddy.
- The whole theater had a delightful laugh at the "I love you more" contest between Anakin and Padme.
- Palpatine was f'in fantastic. No on-screen villain ever did "evil" better than Palpatine and it was fantastic to see it brought back here. The guy is so evil, he probably smells evil. His "unlimited power!" thing when he zapped Sam Jackson dead was just so sleazy I felt dirty watching it.
- Lightsabers are cool so I can't believe I saw a movie that had too many of them! I swear I couldn't close my eyes for the rest of the day without seeing light sticks dance across the inside of my eyelids. Some of it was cool of course but some was just silly (OB1 vs 4 light sabers). The Yoda/Palpatine battle was superfluous and accomplished nothing and ended stupid (Yoda got lost.. pfft).
- Speaking of 4 lightsabers, what's the deal with that guy? Is he living person with a robot shell? I guess he must be if he was taught the "Jedi arts" because Jedis use the Force which comes from life.
- When OB1 killed him with a blaster, did anyone else think it was an ironice reference to Han Solo saying that "hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side" even before his "uncivilised comment? I really, really liked that part.
- Palpatine sure had the Death Star being built pretty quickly, eh?
- One of the dudes I went with had already seen it. He made two observation worth mentioning:
1. The digital projection theater looks WAY better than the normal.
2. He got the feeling that when Palpatine was telling Anakin the story of the Sith who could prevent death being killed by his apprenticed, he was talking about his own master and that it was he, Palpatine, who killed him.
Of course if not the reason they included that story was to show us how ruthless the Sith are, easily killing off their own masters and apprentices, as seen earlier when Palpatine ordered Anakin to kill Duku.
Of course we know that Palpatine will later try to repeat this chain of events by having Luke kill Vader.
- Question: they kept mentioning this prophecy that Vader would "bring balance to the Force" and destroy the Sith. Is the "destroy the Sith" part from the prophecy or just something the Jedi assumed? Because if it is, than Vader fulfills the prophecy at the end of his life by killing Palpatine and, in the process, himself, thus destroying all the Sith. If not, then I guess he "brought balance to the Force" in this film by equalising the number of Jedi and Sith, for at the end of the film we have two Sith (Palpatine and Vader) and two Jedi (Yoda and OB1).
- I have seen much talk of sympathy for Anakin because he was "tricked" into becoming evil, or that he did for a good cause (saving Padme).
Fuck that. He's a douche. When you encounter a room full of children and decide that slaughtering them all is a good idea, you lose any sympathy or any defense of your actions.
But even before that, he was clearly an arrogant megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur. The Jedis' greatest mistake was not killing him much earlier.
And shame on OB1 for leaving him alive like that after kicking his ass, as if he were a Batman villain.
- My gf was not into it of course but she got a bit teary-eyed when OB1 was leaving Anakin to die and lamenting his fate. "You were my brother!" etc. Before seeing the movie I explained to her that I wouldn't mind sleeping through the whole movie just to see a childhood vision finally realised on screen: the battle between Anakin Skywalker and Obi Wan Kenobi that resulted in the final creation of Darth Vader.
- According to some stories and rumours I read before this movie was being made it seemed most people assumed Anakin pledged his allegiance to Palpatine and became Vader after his battle with OB1 and getting his new suit. It was kinda creepy seeing a normal lookin' dude being called Darth Vader.
They could be human. Since it's a "long time ago," maybe some of them came to earth and populated our plant and we're the decendants. Sounds crazy, but that's the way they played it in Farscape.
Anyhoo, I finally saw this the other day. Some thoughts:
- Despite all my jokes, dismissal of its place in pop culture, Jar-Jar, the extreme corniness of the whole thing, the merchandising monstrosity of the franchise and all that other crap, I must say that when the "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." and the Star Wars title hit the screen, I got giddy.
- The whole theater had a delightful laugh at the "I love you more" contest between Anakin and Padme.
- Palpatine was f'in fantastic. No on-screen villain ever did "evil" better than Palpatine and it was fantastic to see it brought back here. The guy is so evil, he probably smells evil. His "unlimited power!" thing when he zapped Sam Jackson dead was just so sleazy I felt dirty watching it.
- Lightsabers are cool so I can't believe I saw a movie that had too many of them! I swear I couldn't close my eyes for the rest of the day without seeing light sticks dance across the inside of my eyelids. Some of it was cool of course but some was just silly (OB1 vs 4 light sabers). The Yoda/Palpatine battle was superfluous and accomplished nothing and ended stupid (Yoda got lost.. pfft).
- Speaking of 4 lightsabers, what's the deal with that guy? Is he living person with a robot shell? I guess he must be if he was taught the "Jedi arts" because Jedis use the Force which comes from life.
- When OB1 killed him with a blaster, did anyone else think it was an ironice reference to Han Solo saying that "hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side" even before his "uncivilised comment? I really, really liked that part.
- Palpatine sure had the Death Star being built pretty quickly, eh?
- One of the dudes I went with had already seen it. He made two observation worth mentioning:
1. The digital projection theater looks WAY better than the normal.
2. He got the feeling that when Palpatine was telling Anakin the story of the Sith who could prevent death being killed by his apprenticed, he was talking about his own master and that it was he, Palpatine, who killed him.
Of course if not the reason they included that story was to show us how ruthless the Sith are, easily killing off their own masters and apprentices, as seen earlier when Palpatine ordered Anakin to kill Duku.
Of course we know that Palpatine will later try to repeat this chain of events by having Luke kill Vader.
- Question: they kept mentioning this prophecy that Vader would "bring balance to the Force" and destroy the Sith. Is the "destroy the Sith" part from the prophecy or just something the Jedi assumed? Because if it is, than Vader fulfills the prophecy at the end of his life by killing Palpatine and, in the process, himself, thus destroying all the Sith. If not, then I guess he "brought balance to the Force" in this film by equalising the number of Jedi and Sith, for at the end of the film we have two Sith (Palpatine and Vader) and two Jedi (Yoda and OB1).
- I have seen much talk of sympathy for Anakin because he was "tricked" into becoming evil, or that he did for a good cause (saving Padme).
Fuck that. He's a douche. When you encounter a room full of children and decide that slaughtering them all is a good idea, you lose any sympathy or any defense of your actions.
But even before that, he was clearly an arrogant megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur. The Jedis' greatest mistake was not killing him much earlier.
And shame on OB1 for leaving him alive like that after kicking his ass, as if he were a Batman villain.
- My gf was not into it of course but she got a bit teary-eyed when OB1 was leaving Anakin to die and lamenting his fate. "You were my brother!" etc. Before seeing the movie I explained to her that I wouldn't mind sleeping through the whole movie just to see a childhood vision finally realised on screen: the battle between Anakin Skywalker and Obi Wan Kenobi that resulted in the final creation of Darth Vader.
- According to some stories and rumours I read before this movie was being made it seemed most people assumed Anakin pledged his allegiance to Palpatine and became Vader after his battle with OB1 and getting his new suit. It was kinda creepy seeing a normal lookin' dude being called Darth Vader.
Chilli
High Treason Prevention Officer
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
My favorite line in the whole movie was ..
"Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!"
"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!"
Hmm .. great dialogue, yes
The "chemistry" scenes fell flat, yes. I guess the main problem was that it was just so bloody artificial, something that just "had to be" .. which makes any romance stories just extra-annoying. As a comparison .. Han Solo and Leia in the original really *worked* .. mostly just because that just made NO sense at all I suppose.
The turn to evil was pretty weak, yeah. If they had either shown it in a bit more convincing fashion .. or a bit more as of Anakin was being overpowered by the force / was ending up semi-scizophrenic and having his true personality pushed out by the "stronger" Darth Vader .. but what we saw was a guy making choices .. choices that only made me wonder about just how that fucking moron could end up being the ultimately scary Darth Vader from the original trilogy. Since yeah, Vader was evil as hell .. but he was scary evil, not whimply evil.
I had very mixed feelings about the "naming" of Anakin to Darth Vader .. it just came off as a bit random. Especially with "Darth Vader" being a play on "Dark Father" (Vader being the dutch for father). I was imagining the name as something Anakin/Vader would have picked himself, and at a later time, not as something random Palpatine chose for him.
What rocked about that scene though was the score .. Palpatine naming him Darth Vader .. and then having his reaction shot underplayed with just a hint of the Imperial March .. quite cool
My favorite line in the whole movie was ..
"Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!"
"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!"
Hmm .. great dialogue, yes
The "chemistry" scenes fell flat, yes. I guess the main problem was that it was just so bloody artificial, something that just "had to be" .. which makes any romance stories just extra-annoying. As a comparison .. Han Solo and Leia in the original really *worked* .. mostly just because that just made NO sense at all I suppose.
The turn to evil was pretty weak, yeah. If they had either shown it in a bit more convincing fashion .. or a bit more as of Anakin was being overpowered by the force / was ending up semi-scizophrenic and having his true personality pushed out by the "stronger" Darth Vader .. but what we saw was a guy making choices .. choices that only made me wonder about just how that fucking moron could end up being the ultimately scary Darth Vader from the original trilogy. Since yeah, Vader was evil as hell .. but he was scary evil, not whimply evil.
I had very mixed feelings about the "naming" of Anakin to Darth Vader .. it just came off as a bit random. Especially with "Darth Vader" being a play on "Dark Father" (Vader being the dutch for father). I was imagining the name as something Anakin/Vader would have picked himself, and at a later time, not as something random Palpatine chose for him.
What rocked about that scene though was the score .. Palpatine naming him Darth Vader .. and then having his reaction shot underplayed with just a hint of the Imperial March .. quite cool
GKarsEye
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
I remember reading that it was Harrison Ford who changed the dialogue between Han and Leia from an exchange of I-love-yous to "I love you," "I know."
Lucas needs people like that to tell him when he's being silly and to iron out details.
Also, one thing that makes the newer trilogy is that there just are no loveable characters like Han Solo. Even Princess Leia was fun to watch. The only sympathetic character in this new trilogy is Obi Wan- sympathetic, not likeable.
I remember reading that it was Harrison Ford who changed the dialogue between Han and Leia from an exchange of I-love-yous to "I love you," "I know."
Lucas needs people like that to tell him when he's being silly and to iron out details.
Also, one thing that makes the newer trilogy is that there just are no loveable characters like Han Solo. Even Princess Leia was fun to watch. The only sympathetic character in this new trilogy is Obi Wan- sympathetic, not likeable.
Ninja_Squirrel
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
Well, R2-D2 is pretty likable. But, yeah, I know what you're saying. It'd be nice to have a likable *human* character. Yoda may have been "cool" in this movie, but his snobby Jedi Council attitude still lowered his likability factor just a bit. I'd say R2-D2 is my favorite character in the entire saga, including the original trilogy.
Well, R2-D2 is pretty likable.
But, yeah, I know what you're saying. It'd be nice to have a likable *human* character. Yoda may have been "cool" in this movie, but his snobby Jedi Council attitude still lowered his likability factor just a bit. I'd say R2-D2 is my favorite character in the entire saga, including the original trilogy.
Sinclair
Moderator
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
I'm pretty sure that's the way it happened. Also, Palpatine is technically Anakin's father and Luke's grandfather. He talked about how they could create life and this also explains Shmi Skywalker's 'virgin' birth of Anakin.
I think that's what Lucas had in mind. It only took a shitload of his friends and family dying to make it happen.
I'm pretty sure that's the way it happened. Also, Palpatine is technically Anakin's father and Luke's grandfather. He talked about how they could create life and this also explains Shmi Skywalker's 'virgin' birth of Anakin.
I think that's what Lucas had in mind. It only took a shitload of his friends and family dying to make it happen.
GKarsEye
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
That seems a stretch. Palpatine was talking about that creation of life thing to get Anakin interested in the Dark Side. It's quite an assumption to then take that to also means that Palpatine "created" him.
As for the "virgin birth," that seemed to have been dropped pretty quickly.
Why would Palpatine created a son? He obviously had no problems recruiting powerful apprentices.
A not related thing: there was only one moment in the ENTIRE prequel trilogy that had any emotional resonancy, and that was Obi Wan's "you were my brother" rant. McGregor single handedly saved that whole story from being dead.
That seems a stretch. Palpatine was talking about that creation of life thing to get Anakin interested in the Dark Side. It's quite an assumption to then take that to also means that Palpatine "created" him.
As for the "virgin birth," that seemed to have been dropped pretty quickly.
Why would Palpatine created a son? He obviously had no problems recruiting powerful apprentices.
A not related thing: there was only one moment in the ENTIRE prequel trilogy that had any emotional resonancy, and that was Obi Wan's "you were my brother" rant. McGregor single handedly saved that whole story from being dead.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
If Anakin's birth did happen at the hands of a Sith (meaning if it wasn't just some elaborate lie Sidious was telling Anakin), then I have serious doubts that it was Sidious that did the creation. He tells Anakin about how Plagueis could create life through manipulation of midi-chlorians and could extend life, and he then says Plagueis taught his apprentice everything he knew. However!, in a later scene Sidious tells Anakin that if Anakin joins him that together they can discover the powers to create immortality.
All that makes me think that Plagueis created Anakin, Sidious found out about it and realized that, in typical Sith fashion, Plagueis intended on replacing Sidious with Anakin. So, Sidious acted first, killing his master, ascending to position of senior Sith, and decided to eventually take on Anakin as his own apprentice. Sidious says that all Sith want more power. I think in this statement he's sutbly saying how he wanted more power but didn't get taught everything he wanted from Plagueis (thus spawning the statement later to Anakin that together they could discover the power to save Padmé). He doesn't know everything Plagueis knew, but he's hoping that having Anakin around long enough will help him to learn by proxy, if you will.
If Anakin's birth did happen at the hands of a Sith (meaning if it wasn't just some elaborate lie Sidious was telling Anakin), then I have serious doubts that it was Sidious that did the creation. He tells Anakin about how Plagueis could create life through manipulation of midi-chlorians and could extend life, and he then says Plagueis taught his apprentice everything he knew. However!, in a later scene Sidious tells Anakin that if Anakin joins him that together they can discover the powers to create immortality.
All that makes me think that Plagueis created Anakin, Sidious found out about it and realized that, in typical Sith fashion, Plagueis intended on replacing Sidious with Anakin. So, Sidious acted first, killing his master, ascending to position of senior Sith, and decided to eventually take on Anakin as his own apprentice. Sidious says that all Sith want more power. I think in this statement he's sutbly saying how he wanted more power but didn't get taught everything he wanted from Plagueis (thus spawning the statement later to Anakin that together they could discover the power to save Padmé). He doesn't know everything Plagueis knew, but he's hoping that having Anakin around long enough will help him to learn by proxy, if you will.
Recoil
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
Yea but you know what? They went to the R2-D2/C3PO well one too many times. In the original trilogy they were funny and a bit of relief. It was also very new back then to have robots as characters. Now, 20+ years later, its not so uncommon.
Also in this new trilogy they just went too over-the-top with the 2 droids. Their antics were unbelievable, repeated, and just fell flat. Hell, ALL of the "comic relief" in this new trilogy was forced. Jar-Jar was the goofy character in the first one, he sucked. They replaced him with C3PO and R2 in the second one, and their scenes came off forced and weak too.
They just tried to take some elements of the original that worked and said "OK, lets do that same thing again, but a lot more of it"
I wasn't impressed with any of the R2/3PO scenes in the new trilogy. R2's opening scene in "Revenge" was cool, but it would have been a lot better if I wasnt sick and tired of all the antics they kept having them do. They wore me out before they even got to a good scene....
Well, R2-D2 is pretty likable.
Yea but you know what? They went to the R2-D2/C3PO well one too many times. In the original trilogy they were funny and a bit of relief. It was also very new back then to have robots as characters. Now, 20+ years later, its not so uncommon.
Also in this new trilogy they just went too over-the-top with the 2 droids. Their antics were unbelievable, repeated, and just fell flat. Hell, ALL of the "comic relief" in this new trilogy was forced. Jar-Jar was the goofy character in the first one, he sucked. They replaced him with C3PO and R2 in the second one, and their scenes came off forced and weak too.
They just tried to take some elements of the original that worked and said "OK, lets do that same thing again, but a lot more of it"
I wasn't impressed with any of the R2/3PO scenes in the new trilogy. R2's opening scene in "Revenge" was cool, but it would have been a lot better if I wasnt sick and tired of all the antics they kept having them do. They wore me out before they even got to a good scene....
Sinclair
Moderator
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
I echo your sentiments, Recoil. After their antics in AotC where C-3PO gets his head switched with a battle droid and R2-D2 flying around with rockets in his legs I gave up all hope for them.
Granted, I can still stand R2 a lot more than I can 3PO. They were much more likeable in the original films.
I echo your sentiments, Recoil. After their antics in AotC where C-3PO gets his head switched with a battle droid and R2-D2 flying around with rockets in his legs I gave up all hope for them.
Granted, I can still stand R2 a lot more than I can 3PO. They were much more likeable in the original films.
Chilli
High Treason Prevention Officer
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
That's true, yeah. I've seen some cuts of some of the Han/Leia scene from early rehearsals - they're in the documentary on the DVD set that my sister dared to get .. they just .. sucked. It's quite fortunate they let Ford give his imput there eventually.
But it's quite true, the worst thing about the new trilogy is the humans. I am growing strongly suspicious of the directing, hell, even Samuel L Jackson just seemed wooden to me .. and that really shouldn't be. McGregor was the only exception for me, he's the only human in the movie I could believe was having emotions. Though in general it seems, the things that truely "worked" were the bits Lucas had re-hashed from the original trilogy. Robots. Yoda. Light sabers. Darth Vader's freaky mask. Sidious. The cool scroll intro (though I couldn't believe how badly the text on it sucked this time). Hell, even the score was only good when it was rehashing the themes from the old trilogy.
That's true, yeah. I've seen some cuts of some of the Han/Leia scene from early rehearsals - they're in the documentary on the DVD set that my sister dared to get .. they just .. sucked. It's quite fortunate they let Ford give his imput there eventually.
But it's quite true, the worst thing about the new trilogy is the humans. I am growing strongly suspicious of the directing, hell, even Samuel L Jackson just seemed wooden to me .. and that really shouldn't be. McGregor was the only exception for me, he's the only human in the movie I could believe was having emotions. Though in general it seems, the things that truely "worked" were the bits Lucas had re-hashed from the original trilogy. Robots. Yoda. Light sabers. Darth Vader's freaky mask. Sidious. The cool scroll intro (though I couldn't believe how badly the text on it sucked this time). Hell, even the score was only good when it was rehashing the themes from the old trilogy.
PillowRock
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
Anakin's move to the Dark Side took a *lot* of time. It had been going on at least since the beginning of Attack of the Clones. Throughout all of that time he had been showing ever increasing flashes of anger, personal ambition, violent disagreement with the Jedi Coucil (which also played out as an extreme lack of acceptance of things not going completely his way), ...... He was also being recruited closer and closer to Palpatine / Sideous over a fair amount of time.
Striking down Windu wasn't the beginning of his slide to the Dark side. It was end of that slide. It was just the breaking of the last taboo: actually taking up arms against the Jedi. That was big line crossing, jumping off the cliff. He knew there was no turning back from that point, regardless of how much he had wanted to (well, given his ambition, that is). After that, there was no way that he would ever be elected to the rank of Master among the Jedi, much less become "the greatest Jedi, ever" (or whatever that phrase had been).
Once he made had performed that act that committed him to the Sith side of that conflict, he didn't look back or hesitate any more. I thought that was entirely in character.
That one I actually disagree with.
Anakin's move to the Dark Side took a *lot* of time. It had been going on at least since the beginning of Attack of the Clones. Throughout all of that time he had been showing ever increasing flashes of anger, personal ambition, violent disagreement with the Jedi Coucil (which also played out as an extreme lack of acceptance of things not going completely his way), ...... He was also being recruited closer and closer to Palpatine / Sideous over a fair amount of time.
Striking down Windu wasn't the beginning of his slide to the Dark side. It was end of that slide. It was just the breaking of the last taboo: actually taking up arms against the Jedi. That was big line crossing, jumping off the cliff. He knew there was no turning back from that point, regardless of how much he had wanted to (well, given his ambition, that is). After that, there was no way that he would ever be elected to the rank of Master among the Jedi, much less become "the greatest Jedi, ever" (or whatever that phrase had been).
Once he made had performed that act that committed him to the Sith side of that conflict, he didn't look back or hesitate any more. I thought that was entirely in character.
KoshFan
Regular
Re: \'Revenge of the Sith\' reviews (Spoilers)
Personally I felt the opening crawl was a little weak, with the exception of the last two lines of the first paragraph: "There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere." If Lucas had played with this a bit more -- actually showing a heroic Separatist -- I think it could have taken the emotional impact up several notches.
As it was I think it pretty nicely foreshadowed the parts where Sidious/Palpatine raised some reasonable points about the Jedi and the Republic.
Personally I felt the opening crawl was a little weak, with the exception of the last two lines of the first paragraph: "There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere." If Lucas had played with this a bit more -- actually showing a heroic Separatist -- I think it could have taken the emotional impact up several notches.
As it was I think it pretty nicely foreshadowed the parts where Sidious/Palpatine raised some reasonable points about the Jedi and the Republic.
